#101 Equine-Assisted Learning with Kelly Wendorf

00:00:01: In this episode, we're talking with Kelly Wendorf founder and CEO of Equus an author a flying lead change.

00:00:10: Listen to your horse And be willing To hear what they are really saying.

00:00:18: Then Be willing to follow up that hearing With action either by stop doing something or starting Doing Something.

00:00:28: Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse.

00:00:32: My name is Danielle Kroll and I'm your host.

00:00:35: Kelly Wendorf, is an executive and personal coach.

00:00:38: She's a published author spiritual mentor disruptor And socially responsible entrepreneur.

00:00:44: Her early experiences were vitally and deeply shaped by The natural in ancient world around her where she learned A way of listening to forces within people nature & moments.

00:00:55: Throughout her life, she has lived and worked around the world studying with many spiritual and indigenous leaders in India Africa Indonesia Australia.

00:01:04: Kelly founded edited and published Kindred magazine an evidence-based publication that explores a social cultural and biological underpinnings of a compassionate society.

00:01:15: And here is She spent fifteen years immersed In the field of neuroscience and neuropsychology and its relationship

00:01:21: to social justice.

00:01:25: Kelly also authored and edited Stories of Belonging, an anthology from authors around

00:01:30: the world

00:01:31: including often excluded Indigenous voices.

00:01:34: And her latest book Flying Lead Change was released in December.

00:01:37: twenty-twenty As a founder of Equus AND as an intuitive lifelong horsewoman.

00:01:43: she also developed The Equus Experience An award winning equine assisted transformational learning process.

00:01:50: Together with her team, Kelly continues to develop and grow the AQUIS experience wisdom circles.

00:01:55: And AQUAS is other complimentary processes that curate various awareness based frameworks that create breakthrough learning and discovery.

00:02:05: so I'm very excited for this conversation discussing a quaint assisted learning book on some of these things.

00:02:13: So let's dive in Kelly, welcome to the Wee Horse podcast.

00:02:17: I'm so excited to chat with you today especially about your book.

00:02:21: like i said...I am a big fan of your work and everything that you do..so welcome!

00:02:27: It's great to be here.

00:02:28: thanks Danielle.

00:02:29: So for people meeting you first time on those listening what is your work?

00:02:35: You know the work of Equice & Your Work in general.

00:02:38: In your

00:02:38: own words Yeah thankyou.

00:02:40: so Equice is sort culmination of all my life's inquiries which just has to do with, you know first and foremost my own inquiry about how be a good human on this earth.

00:02:53: And I don't mean as in the way society defines but just good within myself aligned with myself feeling congruent version of myself I can be.

00:03:06: And so, i'm in the business helping people find their authentic voice actualize there potential and really have rich meaningful purposeful lives across a spectrum whether it's professional or personal interpersonal we're little bit different than alot um, personal and leadership development or organizations because we partner with nature.

00:03:32: We partner with three point eight billion years of evolutionary intelligence to create experiential opportunities that help people learn With their whole body rather than just have some kind of intellectual or theoretical understanding.

00:03:49: And it just exponentiates.

00:03:51: People leave working with echo they leave change They leave different anchored to themselves and in a way that I think is very important for them.

00:04:03: In their lives, so yeah That's kind of it in the nutshell one we call ourselves equest which is you know Latin for horse because our greatest teacher My greatest teacher has been the horse another other sort of tangential Elements that are part of the horse world but that's the horses been a great teacher to me personally.

00:04:25: and And so even though some of our work may not have anything to do with horse-assisted learning, which is kind of primary offering.

00:04:36: The way the Horse and the Horse Wisdom and Horse Culture and Horse as Wisdom Companion has informed what we do in the body of Work that We Do um...and how we approach things has just been very much infused into business.

00:04:51: So thats hence the name.

00:04:54: I love it!

00:04:54: It's so beautiful.

00:04:56: One thing about horses that I know myself, i'm just so drawn to and feel like a lot of others are as well is this sort of sense of reflection that horses can give us.

00:05:08: Whether they're mirroring something back towards or asking us to look inside ourselves.

00:05:15: And so when horses are reading us, sometimes it's something that we're missing.

00:05:21: Like maybe I don't notice it but a horse does?

00:05:25: It could be my body language or my breath.

00:05:27: you know anything like even the congruence between what i'm saying and doing

00:05:34: Right!

00:05:35: So why

00:05:36: do you think that horses are such mirrors for people specifically in leadership roles?

00:05:43: Well, I have a few theories behind it.

00:05:46: First from the biological point of view and neurobiological you've got an animal of prey who if they miss a cue then become lunch right?

00:05:57: So that attunement to what is in front me... And this point-of-view i'm not sure quite for you, but they're so transparent in that biofeedback.

00:06:11: That of course it is for us if we are willing to

00:06:14: listen."

00:06:15: So its the electromagnetic field and those long invisible whiskers that our feeling into what's infront me?

00:06:22: And does it line up?

00:06:23: or where doesn't not

00:06:24: lineup?".

00:06:25: How am I going to respond?

00:06:28: because from them therein at moment a person At this moment, thirty seconds ago was a different person.

00:06:36: Right?

00:06:36: Because they're not reading something static.

00:06:39: They are reading the organic emerging moment which includes how you're emerging in these moments.

00:06:47: So if I'm really rocking it with my horse an hour ago and then In this moment some things got off their rails For me to imagine that the horse should be responding as Hey!

00:06:59: It's Me It's me as if I'm this concrete organism in time, but we're not.

00:07:05: We are a verb actually Danielle!

00:07:09: We aren't a noun or a verb-we constantly humaning.

00:07:15: and so from the horse they reading that verbeness of Oh, here they're present.

00:07:24: No, they are not present.

00:07:25: Here there feeling aligned?

00:07:27: They aren't in tune with that because this is what makes the difference between survival and non-survival for

00:07:35: them.".

00:07:37: That's sort of a column on biology.

00:07:41: Then if you look at it from a more esoteric Mystical point of view, I highly recommend that people download and read a vet colon running horses.

00:07:54: A vet colon or a vet running horse colon?

00:07:58: She very generously has her PhD dissertation online.

00:08:03: you can download it as a PDF.

00:08:04: It's full on book And she went into the decolonization from a Native American point of view.

00:08:16: And when you look at the horse, From that Point Of View You see That The Horse Has Always Been Considered A Wisdom Companion Not A Pet!

00:08:24: The Horse Originated In Wyoming On The Polecat Bench.

00:08:28: they did not come from the Spanish, and so humans have had a long enduring around fifteen thousand year relationship with The Horse.

00:08:38: So we've had this relationship With The Horse for all these thousands of years And From an Indigenous Framework which why Not?

00:08:46: Why Not?

00:08:46: That Be The Framework They Are Here To Teach Us!

00:08:52: prophecy stories ubiquitous across North America that articulate this being who is the horse, who was so sacred they don't even have a name for them.

00:09:02: Who came from the heavens for the primary purpose to help us make better choices?

00:09:08: So we're in alignment with you know...the right order of things and some this moment in our human history that we all find ourselves in today where, you know.

00:09:21: We are in the epic inflection point as a species and... You know?

00:09:26: We're in a poly crisis!

00:09:27: We've got climate change AI nuclear proliferation rampant corruption and fascism going just everywhere.

00:09:36: so This is it.

00:09:38: And what's interesting Is That The Horse Is Showing Up As a wisdom teacher, we've got the emergence of the horse-assisted learning realm.

00:09:49: The horse assisted coaching realm where horses are taking their place to assist

00:09:55: us.".

00:09:55: So from that point of view there...the feedback is for us and they're deliberately providing it because that's their destiny to do so.

00:10:08: That sort of second column.

00:10:11: And the third would be sort of tangential to biological, which is from their point of view once they determine you're not a predator.

00:10:20: You are one of them!

00:10:21: They don't have this like.

00:10:22: oh well here comes Danielle with two legs and no fur.

00:10:26: Therefore, she's not one of us.

00:10:28: If you're in their midst or your system then it is incumbent upon them to give feedback so that they can show up as the best herd member because if there isn't a member who doesn't know how be present for example So, you know it's not just a unicorns and rainbows isn't that nice?

00:10:52: Forces give us this mirror feedback.

00:10:55: This is serious business!

00:10:56: And I think the real question is are we willing to listen?

00:11:01: because their feedback is very direct...and there And this is the part that a little bit breaks my heart, only from my own experience too.

00:11:14: If you're not listening at some point in this veil kind of comes over their eyes and they are like okay!

00:11:22: You aren't listening I'll just oblige...I will be good pony and go with jump or push the cow whatever it is but if lost access to me then never know what because you're not listening.

00:11:39: So I'm not going to tell you, you've lost access to

00:11:41: me."

00:11:42: Right?

00:11:43: And so people think everything is great between me and my horse but how would you

00:11:49: know?".

00:11:49: You know...so there have been horses in my life where i-you know–because I am a former Drosage rider or former Drasage trainer very rigid situation, at least back in those days.

00:12:02: I know there's new things emerging in that realm but i wasn't listening...I said I loved my horse right?

00:12:09: I had feelings of affection towards my horse and I called it love!

00:12:14: But to me Love is also a verb and its love about.

00:12:18: am I hearing you or seeing you..am I getting you?

00:12:22: ..am I feeling?

00:12:24: ...am I willing to be stopped on tracks and changed by?

00:12:30: To me, that's the definition of love.

00:12:40: I can feel Danielle you really hold this beautiful space because words come out like are fresh for us in these moments And it says a lot about how you hold space for listening.

00:12:53: I just want to reflect that back, It's really beautiful and creates all this meaning in connection.

00:13:00: We don't know each other yet There is deep kinship that has arisen with the way we hold space.

00:13:11: Thank You!

00:13:12: I just, I felt your words

00:13:16: so

00:13:16: much.

00:13:16: You know?

00:13:17: I reflect on my mayor and i talk about her a lot in the podcast.

00:13:21: she's like The second host of this podcast And shes

00:13:26: right here!

00:13:27: She

00:13:29: is right there!

00:13:29: Yes...and you know..I really truly believe that she came to me for a reason.

00:13:40: In twenty fourteen, I was hit by an SUV when iI was crossing the street.

00:13:43: It

00:13:44: changed a huge trajectory of my

00:13:46: life

00:13:47: and it broke My right hip And that Was The Year That She Was Born.

00:13:53: Four years later she came into my Life.

00:13:58: When I bought her... I thought.. I don't really think Im going to buy this horse.

00:14:03: She's not what im looking for.

00:14:06: Well just get on her.

00:14:07: Take Her For A Ride.

00:14:08: Anyways It was the safest I've ever felt on a horse before.

00:14:12: I just immediately felt this, This connection and i said yes to buying her Before it even dismounted Loan.

00:14:20: behold!

00:14:20: I find out that she actually had scar tissue On her right hip The exact

00:14:25: same

00:14:26: injury That

00:14:27: I have.

00:14:28: And She has been my greatest Teacher My greatest teacher In You know A variety of ways.

00:14:36: As I hear you explaining everything that you had said, I'm just reflecting back on this idea.

00:14:43: That it is so true...that this veil can come over their eyes like you said and

00:14:50: they go

00:14:50: home with your lives!

00:14:51: You know?

00:14:51: And if you truly listen to them..and if you really allow them to speak,

00:14:59: oh

00:14:59: my gosh....like

00:15:01: the

00:15:02: lessons.

00:15:06: It is incredible, and I just love that story.

00:15:09: And what surfaces as you speak about this story in shamanism they recognize there's a form of us three dimensional here on earth right?

00:15:23: There are gravity physics all those that realm.

00:15:28: And then there's this realm, what they call the dream body which sounds like you know kind of out there but in reality it's those things that are like The Invisibles right?

00:15:37: Your intuition and synchronicity...the fact that this horse shows up is born when you had that accident!

00:15:46: That's all dream-body stuff.

00:15:48: um the Aboriginal folk in Australia say..you more ephemeral sort of invisible part that, you know when we talk about our dreams.

00:16:00: We have a feeling about someone or an intuition about something.

00:16:03: That's all in that realm.

00:16:06: and the horse And this is my experience and definitely yours as well Is-is A messenger between these two.

00:16:14: so we can be in absolute form with the horse jump over jumps push The cow saddle up gone arrived hear the hoof beats, you know all of that and they are happy to be there.

00:16:26: Happy to be here with us!

00:16:28: And their in this world too... They're in the dream realm where they also abide.

00:16:36: That's part of their magic I think is that we can be both places with them.

00:16:44: so what happens?

00:16:46: we over-identify with this form realm and We've got the deadline for The Horse Show And you know, the horse needs to be able to bend to the left better now.

00:16:56: Do they have past better?

00:16:58: Have more flexion!

00:16:59: We're not paying attention To This place.

00:17:04: so when we start listening into the dream realm With them...we get these wonderful capacities For healing or becoming for having better self-agency, for trusting ourselves more.

00:17:18: For being willing to start at zero again and learn something new.

00:17:27: I have a certification program for people who want to become equine assisted coaches And in order to even be in the program at all, you have to already come with a coach certification and lots of horse experience because I want to bounce off that expertise.

00:17:46: What often happens when folks are training with me—and it's two-year program so very in depth is that tension starts to emerge between whether it's tension around how we hold human transformation and our relationships with humans, or a relationship where there are horses.

00:18:09: But this tension starts to emerge around ideas of things should be.

00:18:15: Oh but my client needs get over their anxiety really?

00:18:22: are we sure that getting over the anxiety is actually what needs to happen for them?

00:18:28: What if we listen more deeply to that anxiety, what does that teaching the client and you-what if we're still for a moment and get out of this idea that we have to fix something or mend something?

00:18:40: so there's tension between like doing and being.

00:18:44: And it shows up too.

00:18:45: I have this horse show in May, and i need to get my horse doing this by X. Are you sure?

00:18:54: What is that costing you to put your horse on the

00:18:56: deadline?".

00:18:57: It may be working or it may not... This isn't about either right-or wrong black or white but the dreaming of the real life can live in coexistence as complementary pairs, even though they seem to be sometimes at opposites.

00:19:18: That being and doing are opposites.

00:19:20: know their complimentary

00:19:21: pairs."

00:19:53: And Matt worked for Equestrians with yoga teacher Kathy Woods.

00:19:57: Check out wehorse.com for a free seven-day trial to get started!

00:20:01: As a member you could access everything on our We Horse Library to watch whenever you want And we also have an app, which means you can download a course or video to watch with a Wi-Fi.

00:20:13: Which is perfect for those days at the bar when you just want a quick dose of training inspiration before your ride Or in this case To ground and feel more mindful and present Before meeting your horse.

00:20:25: So what are you waiting?

00:20:27: Go to WeHorse.com.

00:20:28: Check out our free seven day trial to access Our WeHorst library.

00:20:32: See if it's good fit For You.

00:20:34: Start training With our amazing trainers today.

00:20:36: We can't wait to see when they're, and now back.

00:21:06: So we're laughing, right?

00:21:08: And then my brother says yeah well but is there an equestrian something that can be a great metaphor and that's when this emerged.

00:21:18: because of course those of you who have ever executed a flying lead change either deliberately or by accident know that of possibility.

00:21:33: It's hard to describe, but it's addictive to feel it because it is a moment of suspension.

00:21:41: and so as I speak about it remember the metaphors that these words are such wonderful suspensions from where we've been a moment of suspension before the change of lead actually happened.

00:22:01: So if you think about it, when four-legged animal is they never travel exactly straight there always on a bend and so when your forelegged animals running They lead with one side to themselves.

00:22:14: just make sure that don't fall over.

00:22:17: If their little bit going into left they're gonna lead in their left front and left hind leg.

00:22:22: And then when the topography changes or something is needed, I mean it's created in the show ring but as a natural movement.

00:22:31: When the topographic changes than the balance has to change.

00:22:35: so maybe that animal has to go from left.

00:22:38: now we're going to arc to right.

00:22:40: So The horse has to bounce off of earth To flip legs on one side and other.

00:22:50: And so as a metaphor, it's just wonderful because we have been traveling balanced on one side of our nature.

00:22:58: On the logical side... On the physical side.. On the rational side.... On the mechanistic side right?

00:23:06: Look at where its getting us!

00:23:07: We're going somewhere and we are in an inflection point now.

00:23:13: It is requiring not that we shift but radically change balance.

00:23:19: And so it requires us to sort of spring off and biologists talk about evolutionary leaps.

00:23:27: as bounces, a species will bounce forward.

00:23:30: Like when the caterpillar turns to butterfly.

00:23:35: that is an evolutionary leap.

00:23:36: It's not just a little incremental change right?

00:23:40: So we have to bounce off of the current situation suspend what we think we know and change not only direction but changed balance, right?

00:23:52: So this is why the flying lead changes such a great metaphor.

00:23:56: And it requires like presence in certain... If you are any way out of balance as the rider here going to sabotage the horse's efforts to be able do the flight change.

00:24:09: so that have been sort of zen place to make it happen and balanced, and congruent with your horse.

00:24:17: So all this sort of stuff has to line up.

00:24:19: so there's many layers to that metaphor.

00:24:23: but this is where we are right?

00:24:25: Yeah

00:24:25: yeah if we were to look at this from the human perspective like let's say somebody is on the wrong lead balanced more on the doing side, the logical side.

00:24:42: The physical side and so perhaps a flying lead change could be effective or it can helpful?

00:24:50: What does a

00:24:50: flying-lead for human look like?

00:24:55: Yeah let's start

00:24:55: there!

00:24:56: That is great question.

00:24:57: out of all interviews I've done no one has asked that question.

00:25:04: our business equists were in the business of helping people have a fine lead change in their life.

00:25:09: That's really what we do.

00:25:10: and so there is prepping, you know preparing to help And then this bringing forward the suspension The unknown.

00:25:18: they're landing on new ground right?

00:25:19: The whole thing is happening and-and We hold People In that space Really well it can look like first Of all What happens Is what's called A disruption and a Disruption Can be being hit by a car, right?

00:25:32: By an SUV.

00:25:33: A cancer diagnosis can be something positive—can be marriage!

00:25:37: A new

00:25:37: baby...right?...a

00:25:39: new horse.

00:25:39: So from the natural point of view in the natural world disruption is neither positive nor negative.

00:25:44: but disruption is like oh right it's that.

00:25:49: Oh so sometimes it might show up you're in a conversation with uh partner and you've been together for three years.

00:25:59: There it is, and you just know.

00:26:01: You can't unknow it And then everything has to change.

00:26:14: So if-you have to step into the unknown right?

00:26:30: and springing off into the unknown.

00:26:32: But then in that unknown moment is also starting to reorient towards a new balance, you know?

00:26:39: The old way is reliant on people-pleasing not having boundaries being in a co dependent relationship with somebody putting yourself aside.

00:26:48: these are old habits.

00:26:50: You now or no longer your out of balance These aren't going serve anymore.

00:26:55: So the disruption comes, you know.

00:26:57: You can't keep going this way and then you learn a new way of being.

00:27:02: that in this example is more about self-reliance internal locus control trusting oneself Being willing to be alone In that aloneness of self agency that naturally happens.

00:27:16: That's an example.

00:27:18: another example could be a team as an organization, you realize.

00:27:22: You just keep hitting this glass ceiling and part of it has to do with the company culture in that this culture is no longer going to serve this organization's growth and resilience and

00:27:36: sustainability.".

00:27:37: And so awakening to that is a disruption.

00:27:42: So when we gather together—you spring off step into the unknown and you garner information.

00:27:54: that is from a new way of looking at things, discarding old narratives.

00:27:58: Looking at new narratives.

00:27:59: And so organizationally it can happen individually personally professionally.

00:28:07: So another way to look at it is biologists have coined a framework called The Adaptive Cycle.

00:28:14: The adaptive cycle is just the way nature evolves.

00:28:17: It's a it's a way of framing, the flying lead change.

00:28:21: and it looks like...the framework looks an elliptical figure eight on its side and there are four quadrants.

00:28:28: so if we use the caterpillar as example because that's too easy then new beginning over in upper left hand quadrant and that little caterpillar being born.

00:28:41: And then you swing down to the growth quadrant, so he's eating all of these.

00:28:45: He is growing and growing.

00:28:47: Then you swing up into upper right-hand quadrant in its consolidation.

00:28:52: He has as much caterpillar that can't grow into any more

00:28:56: caterpillars.".

00:28:57: The disruption happens!

00:29:00: Something clicks on his body which says,"Oop I have

00:29:04: stopped!".

00:29:05: and the cocoon starts happening... That swings onto the bottom lower left-hand quad, right hand quadrant called letting go and that is when the cocoon happens.

00:29:15: The caterpillar melts from his point of view its annihilation Right?

00:29:23: And then it swings back up to new beginnings but now It's from butterfly.

00:29:27: But that place from letting go an endings To New Beginnings right there in the middle Of the eight Is Called the messy Middle because Its Messy Right?

00:29:40: So like if we were to track a little bit your journey with your horse, you had... You are living your life four years ago and it was sort of at a place where things were consolidating.

00:29:50: And then when you have the accident just major disruption letting go of everything that you knew right That who you were what you had to look out What is important?

00:30:01: I'm just guessing because whenever a disruption happens in our lives It does has this pattern.

00:30:07: I was in a very

00:30:08: corporate

00:30:09: career path, and then i opened the yoga studio.

00:30:16: There we go!

00:30:17: But who comes in?

00:30:20: An ally comes in.

00:30:22: right you let go of the corporate And it's probably messy and scary.

00:30:26: You've got friends going.

00:30:27: wait what are you doing how?

00:30:28: why this is never gonna work for you.

00:30:31: It's all like ah but you have an ally and its your mayor And she assists you in that sort of dark, messy scary cocoon period.

00:30:43: so the new beginning can emerge which is you as a podcaster.

00:30:48: Right?

00:30:49: Yeah and many other things!

00:30:50: You know...you as horse listener or you as horse ally right all these things that have emerged.

00:30:58: Oh

00:30:58: yeah She has held my hand through it That's for

00:31:02: sure.

00:31:03: So

00:31:03: all of that can be really scary for somebody as well.

00:31:07: You know, like even the idea of knowing there's a messy middle... Even if you know it could be really good on the other side of it It still feels scary to go first away from comfort zone and second into something which is a little tumultuous.

00:31:29: role does the horse have in helping someone?

00:31:34: either make that decision or help them through it versus traditional talk coaching, therapy and things like

00:31:41: that.

00:31:42: Yeah!

00:31:42: That's beautiful.

00:31:43: so... It is scary And a lot of the reason why human beings continue to have different developmental phases until they die.

00:31:52: So we know about developmental phase for kids and young people but as adults We also had trajectory too.

00:31:58: however People often will plateau at a certain developmental place because the change is so scary and hard.

00:32:08: And our overculture has set up to push back hard against people transforming and changing.

00:32:15: We don't like change, mm-hmm And through one lens.

00:32:18: that resistance is part of the initiation You know.

00:32:21: but people don't want you leaving though?

00:32:23: The corporate job they don't.

00:32:24: what you live lead lead, you know working for yourself.

00:32:27: It's too light.

00:32:28: how are you gonna make money like that whole thing?

00:32:31: so you have internal pushback Of.

00:32:34: this is really scary and messy, and I'm leaving every bit about everything behind.

00:32:37: that i know.

00:32:39: and then you have external pushback.

00:32:41: Are you sure?

00:32:42: You want to quit your job, like how are we going deal with health insurance

00:32:46: right?".

00:32:46: And that external push back has a name.

00:32:49: it's called Tribal Shaming.

00:32:50: It is the way people don't mean at all but they get activated.

00:32:55: The more primitive part of their brain says ooh somebody leaving the tribe They're leaving the fray.

00:33:06: That's not good.

00:33:07: They'll get eaten by a saber-toothed tiger, and if our hunter gets eaten by the saber-toothed tiger we also are going to starve.

00:33:13: so that kind of like what is happening even though people don't realize

00:33:16: it.".

00:33:17: And they say stuff like, gee you look so tired since your started this new job!

00:33:24: Or you'd really let yourself go.

00:33:25: since she started that podcast or like, are you not really riding your horse enough?

00:33:30: Like I just see you sitting around with your horse all the time.

00:33:33: How're gonna develop that top line?

00:33:36: right?

00:33:36: this is all tribal shaming when people step out of the fray and The reason i'm building This Is to talk about Just how messy it is And how dark and scary because You're getting It from the inside and the outside.

00:33:49: Talk therapy talk coaching can be very helpful, especially if your practitioner is working somatically and understands how the body carries certain messages.

00:34:03: Then you're getting into the experience realm.

00:34:06: but The horse with their Very large nervous system And larger nervous systems have more influence over smaller nervous systems ours their nervous system comes from a fifty six million year old successful system.

00:34:23: So it's not just any large nervous system, its one of the most successful large nervous systems they've been through.

00:34:30: how many messy middles right?

00:34:34: How Many flying lead changes, tectonic shifts climate spikes volcanic mega explosions pandemics.

00:34:41: they've been through it all.

00:34:43: They have bounced through that evolutionary adaptive cycle millions of times

00:34:48: even the man-made ones you know.

00:34:50: war building roads right those things yeah

00:34:54: slaughter everything.

00:34:57: And even now where the over gentrification of forces, were they're not put in little boxes rather than out in pastures.

00:35:05: Right?

00:35:06: They are surviving that event.

00:35:08: So you with a nervous system That knows how to do this and it's beyond words right?

00:35:16: It downloads This material into your nervous system.

00:35:22: Your nervous becomes resilient too.

00:35:26: It's like it equips your nervous system for the messy middle, just to put very simply.

00:35:32: And that's kind of aside.

00:35:33: So when I do my sessions, we have a process called the Equus Experience and it's an equine assisted learning process.

00:35:40: I'm a coach on a certified... An ICF-certified coach.

00:35:44: there is at the coach conversation going on but the real meat of work happening nonverbally while all the person with the horse not even necessarily knowing what's happening But the horses just giving your nervous system, all it needs so that can successfully navigate through a messy middle.

00:36:07: That is very powerful work to ensure that happens.

00:36:13: and here's where I get super opinionated.

00:36:16: the person who is the facilitator has long-enduring relationship with their horses have an ethical framework and a skill set to be able to hold the human, their client well as well.

00:36:37: The horse-assisted industry is unregulated And...and the coaching industry is unrelated.

00:36:45: We do have governing bodies that uphold certain ethics and standards—the ICF being one of them.

00:36:53: But there are a lot of people out there calling themselves coaches who aren't certified, or trained.

00:36:57: And they just like people and want to help people.

00:37:01: I'm not talking about some kind of rigid set of rules but There is A duty-of care that we have to uphold as People holding the human heart come into a herd, not know the herd at all.

00:37:21: Not know the horses at all facilitate a thing and stuff can happen but stuff could also happen so it isn't respecting the horse in the horse's need for enduring relationship.

00:37:36: you cannot use the horse as an object.

00:37:39: You cannot use that is a medicine ball.

00:37:41: And when an organization allows a coach to just use any herd or use any horse, which happens a lot.

00:37:52: The horse may as well be a bicycle stuck in the closet and now we're just going to pull the bicycle out and do it for horses that did learning right?

00:37:58: If you want the magic too... And no one will know the difference!

00:38:03: You know, the clients won't know the different but guess who knows the real transmission to happen.

00:38:15: And here, again we're talking about the dream body and the real body.

00:38:20: if you want a transmission that recognize that sentence, where I'm humble.

00:38:51: And have I earned the right to be in spiritual union with this animal so i can deliver or be the midwife for what's nothing less than a spiritual experience from my clients?

00:39:10: The horse will tell you and if And the session will happen and people say it was great, but there's a difference.

00:39:20: There is a difference.

00:39:23: Is there anything else that you and like the equest experience do differently than other equine assisted learning?

00:39:33: So we have You know The deep understanding of the herd But is or Anything Else That You Do Maybe Slightly Differently?

00:39:42: Yeah, so I would say everything i just said is sort of the container for how we do it differently.

00:39:50: My background like you rigorously trained by horses and various success, some failures on that.

00:40:01: And we learn as much through failure as we do success.

00:40:04: but my father was an archeologist and so I had this really unconventional childhood where... We didn't go on vacation, we just hung out on archaeological digs.

00:40:16: So this sort of put me in physicality of ancient ceremonial grounds indigenous peoples and teachers who are also like the horse uncompromising teachers.

00:40:28: And then I've been a very serious spiritual practitioner for most of my adult life, spending time in India.

00:40:39: come into play with the equus experience, the idea of the sacred.

00:40:44: The ethics behind having a deep enduring, equanimous relationship with the horse—the understanding that the horse is the sacred being.

00:40:54: You know these are all very different than just most approaches which tend to stay in the physical world and not so much the dreamworld.

00:41:05: And I say endeavor squarely because we're always learning and growing, but we endeavor to really hold the highest level of ethics in standards.

00:41:19: And spiritual principles behind what looks like equine assisted

00:41:23: coaching.".

00:41:26: So when I take people through my training, you will be changed by this—you have become not a practitioner, for this transmission to happen.

00:41:40: And that happens through initiation, and it happens though a lot of undoing things that have been put on your head are not going.

00:41:50: serve you in

00:41:51: this.".

00:41:52: It's so much about learning like that through your head education as kind an initiation process at becoming... So then you're the instrument?

00:42:05: That is different!

00:42:07: Right, that's different.

00:42:08: And so I just take a handful of people year very small handful under eight.

00:42:13: i'm not into getting whole pile of facilitators out there in the world because I have to uphold a certain you know quality and standard and The People i'm looking for Have A Certain Character As Well?

00:42:28: That's Not That Many People right.

00:42:29: So it's A Little Handful Every Year That Come On.

00:42:34: And it's one of my favorite things to do, Danielle because the horses want us.

00:42:41: The horses tapped you on the shoulder like the work your doing with this podcast is... You are a voice for the horse and that is so powerful!

00:42:53: What its interesting.

00:42:56: Most of the public diminishes or downplays, or infantilizes.

00:43:00: The whole horse and horses assisted thing or romanticize well all this stuff right?

00:43:05: Yeah And in a way.

00:43:08: In a way I think This allows us to fly under the radar To do our work without getting into crosshairs of forces that would want to silence us.

00:43:19: But this work is very powerful, and it's a rising... The horse has something to say about what's happening on planet Earth right now.

00:43:29: And the horse had something to do with helping us pivot so that not only can we survive but the earth can survive too!

00:43:45: I love the weaving of all that together.

00:43:49: One thing in your book, it was so easy to turn pages because you weaved into storytelling and told about experiences from elders excuse me, indigenous communities.

00:44:06: You told stories of the horses themselves and her dynamics in you know?

00:44:11: The way that you were able to observe them.

00:44:13: And then you also told stories Of people who had come and did like the equine assisted learning experience and things they recognized In themselves.

00:44:24: So it was just such a beautiful weaving.

00:44:28: All these different things Like he

00:44:30: said That

00:44:31: create this very holistic

00:44:33: perspective and

00:44:35: holistic experience.

00:44:36: And I'm wondering if there's anything that

00:44:39: readers

00:44:40: or people before they come, um...and do the experience?

00:44:45: That maybe they oversimplify or they misunderstand from your

00:44:50: work?".

00:44:51: Wow!

00:44:52: Another amazing question.

00:45:01: know if anyone can fully understand the work that happens before they get here.

00:45:06: Yeah,

00:45:07: because it is so nonlinear and It's a wild wisdom And by the way, it's not mine This is just something that was you know kind of bundled up and handed for me to take care Of in hand and keep handing on.

00:45:24: and it requires also That I continue to do my work and be humble to the process.

00:45:29: but In a way, people not knowing is the best because if they could know or understand it then they would compartmentalize and wouldn't unleash inside their being in that need to.

00:45:45: So its little bit like you get seed... You may know its going be an oak tree but How big and where the branches are going to reach in how tall it will become.

00:45:57: And you know what?

00:45:58: The trunk will look like exactly, You know when the roots.

00:46:00: so It's a little bit like that.

00:46:02: but I would say is that When its happened an you've had the experience To resist the temptation kind of one and done It starts to unfurl in you and do its work.

00:46:18: And just allow it keep doing his working new for years afterwards, I mean we got emails from people who had two hours and they get an email five years later?

00:46:29: You know i still remember and is still being working this way my life so kind of allowing the internal space to let that Rome you know, for years afterwards.

00:46:41: that's the best.

00:46:42: if you can kind of somatically meaning just on a felt sense feel like I'm going to keep it with me and i am gonna let trust in have its way.

00:46:53: That would be something that

00:46:59: is very common pattern or feedback.

00:47:02: When people leave, they very commonly say like oh this is the biggest thing that horse taught me.

00:47:08: Or do you find it unique between everybody?

00:47:11: Yeah It's very unique.

00:47:12: a lot of times They have hard time putting words to it.

00:47:17: One of things I tell when they leave here Is there will be well-meaning People who are like what was it and how was it?

00:47:23: And i always Tell them You're still processing Just don't share.

00:47:29: because when we try to articulate something that is hard to articulate, we diminish the experience by trying to hand it over to people.

00:47:39: So its kind of a bad marketing thing.

00:47:41: but I would say on what people try and articulate as if some inner compass setting was shifted or reoriented like two three degrees where maybe full one eighty right?

00:47:59: But either way, the trajectory from that point means a huge shift over year two years three years.

00:48:07: And so they feel like A, orientation goes from what does the world think about me?

00:48:12: and am I loved?

00:48:14: You know Am i doing it right to?

00:48:17: Oh man!

00:48:18: I'm in myself and It is trustworthy and now I'm stepping out this way.

00:48:26: So it's kind of that.

00:48:27: It's like a compass, internal compass setting.

00:48:32: Yeah

00:48:33: I want to be mindful your time so i have just a few more questions for you Kelly.

00:48:36: but if somebody was listening and they're thinking oh gosh!

00:48:39: Like

00:48:40: I'm...I'm

00:48:41: just so drawn into this work- I really feel called towards it.

00:48:45: Is there any sort of context that you can give for what your specific graduates walk away with or the clients they tend to work after they become certified?

00:49:00: First, we have a certification program.

00:49:07: um coaching work and then of course we have all the work for people who just want to experience the work.

00:49:13: Um but further, for this certification program they I endeavor to not only kind of take them through this initiation process that helps them to become The vessel?

00:49:26: And so they find their lives change.

00:49:29: personally it's a disruptor right, in a positive way.

00:49:34: And so people often find they feel brave enough to quit that job—that's just a dead-end job and they're ready to wholeheartedly go into a completely horse assisted life and lifestyle.

00:49:44: They buy properties, they get horses...they leave crummy marriages like all of THAT can happen!

00:49:51: Then I work for them to cultivate their authentic expression of this work.

00:49:57: I don't want cookie cutter me's out there, they come with their own unique background and influences And so they have their very own style With this work.

00:50:09: one of my certified facilitators is bilingual and she has getting all This workout into the Spanish speaking communities.

00:50:17: and

00:50:18: She works with leadership teams and she works with nonprofits but it's All Spanish-speaking which amazing.

00:50:25: Somebody else who's certified, she's a coach.

00:50:29: her name is Nail Debevois and she does equus pop-ups because she loves to travel!

00:50:36: And so she partners with different retreat centers around the world and does leadership development you know around...and she gets to develop her own relationship with these herds at these different retreat centres.

00:50:48: but it also feeds her passion for travel.

00:50:51: So they don't have to be mutually exclusive, right?

00:50:54: That's just a couple of examples so that I'm supporting people to find their voice and their expression.

00:51:03: And then helping them to have different business strategies create a business from scratch, or coaching business from Scratch.

00:51:16: Or how do you level up?

00:51:19: A coaching business that already brings in the horse element.

00:51:22: so I try to equip them as much possible and be successful because at least coach training organizations don't necessarily equip their new newly hatched coaches with how you do a business, which is completely different skill set.

00:51:42: right then the coaching itself.

00:51:45: So does that answer your question?

00:51:47: Absolutely

00:51:47: yeah.

00:51:48: it gives lots of context for those listening as well.

00:51:50: last one before we jump into our rapid fire.

00:51:53: I've been asking this to our guests for a couple of years now because specifically within the horse industry, I've just been noticing big change.

00:52:03: More so than positive in this sense that we're seeing less dominant training behavior or we are seeing less harsh gear use and all those different things.

00:52:14: So i have been asking my guest like what do you most hopeful about it?

00:52:19: And I would love to tweak that a little bit for you and ask based on your work, the people that you see coming into your farm.

00:52:33: What are you most hopeful about with

00:52:37: This, the whole work gives me hope because I you know before doing this work.

00:52:43: I was very disappointed in humanity

00:52:46: and it's

00:52:46: like go over to the forest and the wars.

00:52:49: oh my gosh!

00:52:50: And every time i see that light come on in people Because The Horse has given them something.

00:52:59: That Light Gives Me Hope.

00:53:01: It Says To Me All This Is Happening Because We Have A Future Right.

00:53:08: so it says yeah, It is dark right now.

00:53:11: It is scary.

00:53:13: We are in that letting go messy middle thing That's going on and?

00:53:20: That light tells me that we are On the right track even though it feels like we're not Mm-hmm And I just see human after Human.

00:53:28: with that right i get to See that.

00:53:31: Yeah, for all walks of life whether they're a corporate CEO or an artist or visionary.

00:53:38: Or stay at home dad that light yeah

00:53:42: That's beautiful.

00:53:44: I hope i'm right.

00:53:47: So jumping into our rapid fire it's always just the first thing that um that pops under my guess head.

00:53:53: so The First one is do you have a motto?

00:53:55: Our favorite saying?

00:53:57: Yes, I have two.

00:53:59: Tolerate discomfort and opt-out of consensus reality.

00:54:06: Love it!

00:54:07: Who

00:54:07: has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

00:54:10: In Australia she's the woman who first opened the door to listening...to horses really listening..and her name is Louise Cropak And She's a New South Wales.

00:54:26: I'm really grateful to Louise.

00:54:29: If you could give our listeners one piece of advice, what would it be?

00:54:34: Listen...to your horse and be willing to hear What they're really saying And then be willing To follow up that hearing with action Either by a change either by stop doing something or starting Doing Something.

00:54:56: Yeah, that's good.

00:54:57: I love the second part of it because often you hear listen to your horse but if you add them on they'll actually do something

00:55:05: about it!

00:55:07: My horse says i don't want to go out today and like okay heard that we're still going out.

00:55:17: Exactly.

00:55:18: And then the last one Kelly please complete this sentence.

00:55:22: for me horses are

00:55:25: Shaman's spiritual mentors and messengers between the mystery, this earth.

00:55:38: Yeah we all have a

00:55:42: bunch of shamans in our paddocks.

00:55:44: We do!

00:55:44: Oh my gosh I love them.

00:55:48: Where can people find out about you, your book?

00:55:50: Your work whether they want to become a facilitator or come for the experience.

00:55:57: Thank you so much and I wanna give your audience great big gift!

00:56:03: So... Come to EquusInspired.com.

00:56:07: EQUS inspired That is my website.

00:56:12: Everything Is There, you can get My Book there but the book is available on Amazon and all major booksellers flying me change.

00:56:19: fifty six million years of uh, wisdom for leading and living.

00:56:24: And um I have a lot of online programs virtual so that people all over the world we can work together and then of course come to the ranch and hang out and work with my herd or work with one of my facilitators.

00:56:35: they're all over The Place too!

00:56:37: And then the training of course is there on the website.

00:56:40: People Can Find Out All About It.

00:56:41: We open...we are already opening applications For twenty-twenty seven.

00:56:45: it starts early in Twenty-Twenty Seven.

00:56:47: Then..it's A Big Commitment.

00:56:48: So now Is Time To Start Thinking about It.

00:56:50: I have a discount code and you can put it in the show notes, but it's equis-tenkw for my name Kelly Wendorf.

00:57:00: Equus tenkw that'll give you ten percent off of anything on the website which could mean a lot of money depending on what you go for.

00:57:11: Could be ten percent any other courses But it could be ten per cent off coaching with me or training with me.

00:57:17: very, very big discount.

00:57:18: So I've not done that before but feel like kinship and affinity to your community.

00:57:25: so

00:57:26: we're so grateful.

00:57:27: thank you for everybody listening.

00:57:28: i'll put the link in the show notes as well as a discount code.

00:57:32: so you just have to scroll down click it And then be able to check everything out and get a discount.

00:57:37: Thank You For Doing That!

00:57:42: And thank you so much, Kelly for this incredible interview.

00:57:47: I don't even want to call it an interview or experience in and of itself...I've just enjoyed myself immensely!

00:57:53: So thanks a lot for being here.

00:57:55: Me too.

00:57:56: Thank you for your service that you're doing on behalf of the horses and their people.

00:58:01: It's very touch-to-meet you.

00:58:04: We'll stay in contact.

00:58:09: Thank you for listening to this episode of the Equestrian Connection podcast by WeHorse.

00:58:14: If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world if we could leave a rating and review as well.

00:58:20: share us on social media!

00:58:22: You can find us at WeHorst underscore USA and check out our free seven-day trial on wehorse dot com where access over one hundred seventy five courses with top trainers from around Until next time, be kind to yourself your horses and others.