#102 Laminitis, Insulin Resistance, & EMS with Susan Tenney

00:00:01: In this episode, we're talking with Susan Tenney.

00:00:04: The founder of Elemental Accupressure where she has trained animal professionals in five element acupressures and energy work for over three decades.

00:00:14: It's basically like if you can pat your horse You could do acupression.

00:00:19: it is that simple.

00:00:20: So...you are enough And then get started.

00:00:23: its not above you.

00:00:25: Welcome to the Equestrian Connection Podcast from WeHorse.

00:00:28: My name is Danielle Kroll.

00:00:30: I'm your host.

00:00:31: Originally certified in Shihatsu and Accupressure at the Shihatsu Institute of San Francisco, Susan built her equine practice in Northern California before expanding into an international career that blends classical East Asian medicine with modern bodywork anatomy biomechanics.

00:00:49: And the energy work system she co-developed for their husband Jonathan Cohn.

00:00:53: Her client roster has included school horses and elite competitors alike, among them the Swiss equestrian teams and gold medal-winning teams and riders from USET.

00:01:05: And as her practice grew Susan began teaching across the

00:01:08: U.S.,

00:01:09: Canada & Europe leading equine acupressure certification programs in several countries and teaching for internationally recognized schools such as Equinology.

00:01:18: She's also the author of Basic Accupression for Horses, published in both English and German.

00:01:25: And that's writing appearing in leading equine publications worldwide.

00:01:30: Now based in Seattle, Susan leads the Elemental Acropressure Certification Program and a range of online trainings that draw students from more than forty countries.

00:01:39: She is known for making complex concepts genuinely accessible –and her method has on both practitioners & animals in care!

00:01:50: I'm so excited about this conversation….

00:01:52: let's dive into it!

00:01:54: Susan, welcome to the We Horse podcast.

00:01:57: I'm so excited to chat with you today!

00:01:59: It was just telling me before we started recording that i have a little bit of personal thing happening in this and it's a conversation I am going to geek out on...and our audience is really gonna appreciate as well..so welcome.

00:02:12: Thank You So

00:02:13: Much!!

00:02:13: I AM ALWAYS EXCITED ABOUT THIS

00:02:15: TOPIC!!!

00:02:16: I WANT TO TELL YOU THAT.

00:02:18: OF ALL THE CONDITIONS THAT WE HEAR FROM HORSE PEOPLE ACROSS THE GLOBE over years and years, laminitis and metabolic issues are absolutely the number one issue that people want answers for.

00:02:33: So it's not back pain ,it is not reactivity .

00:02:37: It's laminidus because its a big deal when your horses in pain.

00:02:42: you want answers.

00:02:43: so yes!

00:02:45: Its really great topic.

00:02:48: Before we dive into all of that, you know juicy content.

00:02:52: Can You give us a little bit?

00:02:54: Of

00:02:54: A backstory for you Sure can tell Us a Little Bit About what it is That you do how you guys started with this Work All the Things

00:03:02: Yeah.

00:03:03: So I've Been Actually Doing This A very long Time.

00:03:07: i actually fell Into It in When i was only less than i Was.

00:03:14: um, thirty years ago when I was in kind of between what to do with my life and...I was dreaming about horses absolutely every night.

00:03:25: And i said..i'm not you know- i'm NOT a trainer!

00:03:27: I am NOT a professional rider.

00:03:29: and other than maybe cleaning stalls?

00:03:31: What in the world could I do for

00:03:32: horses?!

00:03:33: And it was actually my husband's fault.

00:03:35: uh he was reading a book and he said oh you can go do horse massage but This was in nineteen ninety two when it Was not the thing that It is now.

00:03:47: When you told people That's what You wanted to do they'd Actually just laugh because I didn't think i was being serious but.

00:03:53: I fell In love from very much day one about how simple touch could transform a horse in front of my eyes.

00:04:05: so you know, not only just love the idea of being able to help horses and help them feel better move better perform better all that good stuff but too also know.

00:04:18: That Just by using simple touch it was Not some fancy complicated thing.

00:04:25: It Was as Simple As Just Pressing my Hands To The Side Of Their Body With The Accupressure And Also Some Shiatsu Which Is Kind Of A Massage Technique puts it all together.

00:04:38: I was seeing amazing results and so, I got hooked from day one and thirty-three years later...I'm still

00:04:49: obsessed!

00:04:50: And the amazing thing for me to watch is how it's universal many places in Europe and we have online students from all over.

00:05:09: And it works for everybody, not every horse loves it or for every point.

00:05:15: but to see that you know?

00:05:18: We've used with horses at World Cup events.

00:05:21: We've use it at world champions.

00:05:32: kind of high level of performance, but it's also just that way of connecting with horses.

00:05:38: And that's when we remember... We get drawn into horses because our passion and love for the animal is a way to connect to an animal which is so personal and intimate yet still really profound!

00:05:55: So like I said once i got started working you know, branched out into working with dogs and cats.

00:06:03: And rescue horses and everybody and traveled a lot with it because I was so passionate about it.

00:06:09: So it really has been a great journey.

00:06:12: Mmm...I love that.

00:06:14: Can you give us a little bit of an overview?

00:06:17: what the difference is between acupressure massage?

00:06:21: What many would think more like I'm using air quotes, traditional equine massage.

00:06:26: Yeah

00:06:27: absolutely and first of all there is no better or worse.

00:06:31: And although there are distinctions the truth is in practice Both camps actually There's a huge Venn diagram connection.

00:06:41: so we're... The massage people doing a lot of acupressure, even if they don't know it.

00:06:46: And a lot the people that are pressing acupersure points and stroking to do things together Are actually doing A LOT OF THE BENEFITS THAT A MORE SPORTS MASSAGE APPROACH MIGHT BE TAKING.

00:06:58: So... The massage itself more in the tradition Of maybe a Swedish massage or something like that Is is more.

00:07:08: Its goal is usually more about biomechanics, so you're trying to make sure that the muscles have this beautiful tonus and yet also relaxation.

00:07:17: So you've got range of motion on an animal moving in a way that doesn't feel tight or restricted or uncomfortable or uncoordinated And absolutely sports massage are whatever you want call those terms.

00:07:32: there's million techniques behind that.

00:07:35: They can have incredible results for horses, they go beyond biomechanical but usually the focus is are the muscles relaxed enough so an animal could move well?

00:07:48: The incredible thing about acupressure and working with these points on the body it's very similar to say getting a acupuncture session where you lie at your table little itty bitty needles into these places on the body is that you're tapping instead, this deeper concept.

00:08:10: You are tapping in to energy within your body and now being measured by scientific studies or research about how this system actually works which was out of scope for discussion.

00:08:25: but something has been proven not only range of motion and pain relief, those kinds But it also has the ability to influence mood behavior.

00:08:42: So a horse's temperament may be what is, but you can help them feel more relaxed or more balanced within that behavior and It can also go into working with deeper inner organ health as well.

00:08:54: so we have points for lung issues Or immune issues or making the liver or stomach work better.

00:09:04: It's pretty incredible that being able to touch the surface of places that we've identified over thousands of years from several countries in East Asia, We are able to kind of optimize the health of the body.

00:09:20: and none Of these ever-ever replace your veterinarians care.

00:09:24: That is always part of this process.

00:09:27: I am not a veterinarian i don't try To be I have NOT trying to replace that but I do know that These methods whether you're using kind of more traditional massage, or whether you're coming with this point work that is sometimes involving strokes as well.

00:09:43: That although they might look very similar their intention is different in the approach.

00:09:52: I just find all these so fascinating.

00:09:54: i love speaking with body workers because it's such an important part animal health and human health that is often overlooked.

00:10:07: I love these conversations, so if you just see me absorbing everything... I'm taking all this in!

00:10:16: The way i look at it a lot of people they hear what i do say oh you must work with race horses like they have preconceived notions about what this is.

00:10:27: the truth is that horses are professional athletes.

00:10:30: professional athletes basically earn their upkeep by doing stuff with their bodies, by performing.

00:10:38: And horses are essentially and you know there's exceptions but essentially most the grand majority of people have horses because they can ride them or drive them are different, interact with them.

00:10:53: But they use their bodies to do these incredible things with us whether we're jumping or dressage or just you know teaching a beginner how to walk around the arena.

00:11:03: and if there professional athletes which I definitely consider Every single professional athlete in all the big sports teams, no matter what you're talking or soccer gymnastics or whatever.

00:11:15: They are getting body work.

00:11:16: they're getting chiropractics or osteopathy Or different forms of massage to allow them to optimize What they do and that's all we're doing is helping them optimize what?

00:11:27: And feel better emotionally as well.

00:11:32: All right, I want to dive into our Laminitis conversation here.

00:11:35: And before we do let's do a couple of little definitions for our listeners.

00:11:41: can you just briefly explain the difference between laminitis insulin resistance and EMS?

00:11:48: Then i'm going to put a little asterisk in a way that most people understand!

00:11:53: Yeah...I could get out there really fast!

00:11:56: The technical yeah!

00:11:59: And I think one of the things that helps us understand Laminitis, EMS insulin resistance because they're thrown around and you know Facebook posts etc.

00:12:08: etc.

00:12:08: all over and people don't always Know exactly what?

00:12:11: They mean why should they?

00:12:13: you know You're not a veterinarian so you're not expected to know these things necessarily.

00:12:18: It's more my job To kind of come in and help People Understand how do How to deal with These.

00:12:23: but i Think With The Obesity crisis that we have in our culture today, these are not concepts that are foreign to us.

00:12:34: We look at the issues around diet and exercise and lifestyle.

00:12:42: when people aren't eating correctly or having healthy diets, you can be dealing with obesity.

00:12:50: You could be dealing genetic things as well.

00:12:52: so not that it's your fault.

00:12:53: quote unquote because we're making choices but this is the predisposition and certainly true for horses too.

00:13:04: But these kind of choices and this lifestyle can cause imbalance within the metabolic system so that it's not working at its optimum rate.

00:13:17: So what this usually looks like to start with horses is, starts from insulin resistance.

00:13:26: Insulin hormone in job help take sugar in bloodstream Which comes from they eat an apple or the eat the grass, whatever.

00:13:37: They're eating and take those sugars that have been partially digested And allow them to enter this cell.

00:13:44: it's kind of a carrier The bridge into the cell.

00:13:47: so the cells says oh yes This horse wants to gallop down in field.

00:13:52: I can do That because i've got energy to do that action and whether it's jumping over an oxer or again just walking around the arena they need that energy.

00:14:04: And so when the insulin isn't working right and its complex story we don't need get into but understand that transition from bloodstream is not working.

00:14:17: What you tend to see then is what we call blood sugar dysregulation, so it's not regulated.

00:14:24: You have... Sugar levels are NOT working at the level that they're supposed to and the problem with THAT IS IT CAUSES INFLEMATION!

00:14:33: It causes inflammatory cytokines or these things within THE BLOOD.

00:14:37: that is kind of damaging cells.

00:14:39: It's not good but its like that perfect storm to be desired.

00:14:45: Just the same as if your doctor tells you, oh!

00:14:47: You've got prediabetes...you've gotta change things because you don't want to go to diabetes for the horse.

00:14:54: our biggest concern of course is laminitis Because what happens with the insulin resistance which leads to what we would call equine metabolic syndrome or EMS?

00:15:07: and there's all sorts of symptoms that say hey yellow alert orange alert.

00:15:11: We're going towards red alert here, you know maybe a crusty neck or weight gain or lethargic overly thirsty.

00:15:21: there's all sorts of signs that kind of warn us and That can lead to.

00:15:26: if it's not taken care off It can lead the laminitis And I think we tend feel like, oh my god it's my fault and I missed something.

00:15:37: And a lot of this we have to realize is just some of these horses are really prone to it.

00:15:42: they're vulnerable.

00:15:43: so yes we have responsibility to learn as much as we can but we also have to be kind with ourselves and understand that we need do the best we can.

00:16:02: EMS or that equine metabolic syndrome can lead to laminitis if left unchecked.

00:16:10: This time of year, so right now we're recording it.

00:16:12: It's the end of May.

00:16:15: I was telling you before we started recording That We brought a I'm calling him a foster pony To our firm in The End Of November and all winter long he just that pony menace, you know.

00:16:29: He's getting into everything and he's going everywhere doing all the things.

00:16:33: who is such a hoot?

00:16:37: as soon as March hit

00:16:39: bang um

00:16:41: Everything changed And we're now dealing with a laminatic episode that it was like a night and day switch.

00:16:50: Suddenly I saw all three of them, my two horses in the pony running along the paddock And then he stopped.

00:16:57: Um...and He no longer wanted to run with him.

00:17:01: Yep!

00:17:01: It's kind of been you know with tumultuous ride ever since Then.

00:17:06: What is it about this time of year?

00:17:07: This springtime That seems to bring out All Of The Symptoms.

00:17:11: Is it just the grass or is it accumulation of other things?

00:17:16: Its the

00:17:16: grass

00:17:17: for sure.

00:17:17: So for those of you who don't know, um when you have that new spring grass it's very high in sugars and that's why you'll hear about putting on mussels or not turning them out at certain times.

00:17:30: And yes the grass is a part of it for sure but that's usually the straw that broke the camel's back kind of thing.

00:17:37: It's one thing that took from sub pathological.

00:17:40: so its all happening and brewing But hasn't turned into laminitis yet and then puts it up above.

00:17:47: And so if we blame only the grass, were missing a lot of opportunities?

00:17:54: Yes this time-of year is absolutely a perfect storm for many horses!

00:18:01: We also have to acknowledge that there are definitely horses who will have laminitis in fall even winter.

00:18:07: So other times or situations but our typical You know, biggest case is yes.

00:18:15: This is kind of laminitis season when we're filming this it Is that springtime and depending on where you live in the world?

00:18:22: Of course if your down under or you may be thinking That's gonna Be six months from now It's its time When The grasses are new And high In sugar.

00:18:32: but There's a couple of other things going on that we want to look at.

00:18:37: with this classical East Asian medicine That is involved with this acupressure, and this is where?

00:18:43: We get into something.

00:18:44: I'm super passionate about.

00:18:46: there are lots of different branches Of Classical East Asia Medicine which in all of them include the Acupressur Which is my first and biggest passion.

00:18:58: um but the branch that we work with deals with what we call The Five Elements.

00:19:04: Now, the five elements are just a branch of the theory.

00:19:06: there's no one that's better or worse than the other But it's-it's A powerful very ancient branch Of medicine That works for people and animals.

00:19:15: And the interesting thing about springtime is that springtime is associated with one of these elements, or sometimes they're called phases in the cycle.

00:19:26: we work within this theory.

00:19:28: And without getting too deep into the weeds on the theory there are five of those elements.

00:19:34: but first element in a cycle it's called wood element and its associated with spring time.

00:19:43: so we have to say oh is anything going here?

00:19:47: that's associated with this, they could give us some clues.

00:19:51: And indeed it is because the wood has also involved with a hoof!

00:19:56: It's absolutely in.

00:19:58: you know...it's got different body parts that are associated with that wood element and one of them as the hoof.

00:20:04: The other is the liver and the liver is also very closely tied to blood sugar regulation.

00:20:12: There's, again I'm not going get into the physiology of it you can go and start doing research but just understand that the liver which is most important organ for this wood element kind of category is absolutely trying its best to keep those blood sugar levels healthy in these horses and sometimes it's really struggling.

00:20:36: And at the time of year when the wood is highlighted or strongest, It can really stumble!

00:20:43: This is where we end up with issues around laminitis Or even just edging there like their little foot sore These kinds things that are telling you take care of business now if we can.

00:20:59: Yeah, what are some misconceptions horse owners have around laminitis and metabolic health?

00:21:08: Well I think the biggest misconception is that there's nothing you can do like oh i-I have a fat pony and other than refusing him grain which makes it miserable... There's nothing I can do!

00:21:20: And that's simply not true and any vet would tell the only one who's going to tell you that, but they may not know.

00:21:29: That there are these active things that you can do that don't have to involve ONLY diet and exercise.

00:21:36: Now diet and exercises are key for sure!

00:21:39: You know yes...you need to watch those spring grasses..You NEED TO WATCH WHAT ELSE YOU'RE FEEDING?

00:21:44: And if we're honest a lot of us think oh my horse isn't fat like, oh he's just fine and we tend to think I like him a little round.

00:21:54: but these are horses that don't do well around.

00:21:57: These are the horses that really struggle in this situation.

00:22:02: so if you need another set of eyes ask your veterinarian how is that body score?

00:22:09: You know i like is that healthy?

00:22:14: And a lot of times I hear this from veterinarians, for cats and dogs as well as horses.

00:22:20: That people either don't see the weight coming on or they're just not being honest with themselves then know better maybe even told by the vet.

00:22:31: For horses, this is bad because whereas dogs and cats tend to get diabetes like humans do what the horses tend to go towards.

00:22:39: Is this laminitic changes?

00:22:41: And this where the laminae or the cells inside that hoof capsule.

00:22:47: they are starting to degenerate and have changes way before that horse becomes foot sore.

00:22:55: The change starts months, if not even years ahead of that laminatic event.

00:23:00: so when we see those outside signs like the cresty neck or like those fat pads Like you know peeing too much like having low energy Even when their food is good.

00:23:13: maybe last year they had high energy and we're wondering what changed.

00:23:17: We want to watch those changes, the changes in say oh we've got act now!

00:23:22: And it's not to wait until their footsore.

00:23:25: or even worse you know full-on can't move at all...we wanna try to act before those changes because anytime you waited until laminitis..you know that there has been some cellular damage.

00:23:43: Best time to get started with this is a year ago, but the next best time is now.

00:23:49: So just know that there are absolutely things you can do and acupressure which we'll be talking about is absolutely one of them.

00:23:57: it can make a huge difference in pain relief And recovery.

00:24:02: for our horse That's actually You know they're and has the condition But it can also help to prevent It.

00:24:10: I'm not saying stop shop.

00:24:12: You have to also change the diet and exercise, but absolutely it can help to turn that metabolism around so you don't end up there in first place.

00:24:23: Okay just kind of recap a few early warning signs.

00:24:26: we had the crusty neck some fat pockets.

00:24:30: We have lethargy like if wasn't there previously If your notice.

00:24:36: a change in energy levels weight Yes.

00:24:41: Is there anything else that I'm missing?

00:24:43: Well, what's interesting?

00:24:44: is your vet going to have some additional things to throw in and be talking about kind of in Western medical terms?

00:24:53: but it still also lean into understanding some of the classical East Asian medicine indications because these are early indications.

00:25:06: Each of those five types, there's wood fire earth metal and water.

00:25:12: All five types have a temperament that is associated with the element And so for example you described your pony as being pretty frisky like into everything super active.

00:25:29: We love that right?

00:25:30: He was half the size of my horses

00:25:35: And he's twenty, but his acting like two.

00:25:37: That kind of thing?

00:25:39: Exactly!

00:25:39: This behavior is very much that wood element behavior and I want to be really clear what i'm talking about these elements.

00:25:48: all animals have all five types, so it's not that you only have one kind.

00:25:55: Not that at all!

00:25:56: All of them have everything but some of the slices of the pie as you do your pie diagram are going to be larger they're gonna be more obvious and they're going to Be More To The Forefront And That Tends To Be Where The Symptoms End Up As Well.

00:26:11: So...not Only Do You Have Behavior Associated With Each Of The Elements But You Also Have These organ problems, such as like laminitis in the hooves etc.

00:26:23: And so what we can do is look at issues primarily when we're talking about your typical laminitis and I'm not talking yet about Cushing's or PPID that has a slightly different presentation.

00:26:36: but in these very active animals who get this more typical springtime laminidus you are usually looking and or the earth.

00:26:47: And that wood is super dynamic, it's super energetic.

00:26:52: It needs to move and we'll get really like impatient and irritable if its not moving.

00:26:57: These are horses who don't keep me in a box.

00:27:00: Give me twenty four hour day turnout Competition horse?

00:27:04: Yeah!

00:27:05: give it to me.

00:27:05: I love it.

00:27:06: You know i want do more with you.

00:27:08: So thats that wood energy That when its healthy can be an incredible competition horse have to be in competition.

00:27:16: You can also use it to climb mountains on trails or, you know whatever you want do with that horse.

00:27:21: they'll be game as long as their healthy.

00:27:24: but those wood types...you could see its start turn nasty..You might see more crankiness....you might see irritability or impatience.....you might issues around act out and out aggression.

00:27:39: And it might either be very external, which is the most common but can also be these horses that are almost curmudgeonly in kind of grumbling to themselves internally.

00:27:49: so thats a wood type.

00:27:50: that's going to be real typical springtime

00:27:53: limonitis?

00:27:55: But there another type of

00:27:56: horse

00:27:57: actually who ends up with this issue because its not just one organ involved as an entire metabolism.

00:28:04: And so sometimes you get a horse that looks really, really different.

00:28:07: That's the earth type.

00:28:09: we actually call them The Good Is Gold because they're kind and gentle... ...and the one where you put your kids on to learn in their lessons.

00:28:18: These are the ones who look at food and gain weight.

00:28:23: They look for new green grass with diarrhea.

00:28:29: really two different types.

00:28:31: But both of those types, that wood type and the earth type are ones most prone to this kind.

00:28:40: standard laminitis not dealing with the cushions which goes into another element.

00:28:46: The thing about Earth Element Animal is it's so hard To refuse them food because one their favorite things Is Food.

00:28:53: So they might get nippy.

00:28:54: That may be only time They get aggressive dinner time and there's such good kind guys.

00:29:01: They may be stubborn, they maybe a little slower to learn or have some issues that are challenging but basically their really hearted.

00:29:08: we want them to eat favorite snack.

00:29:11: it might not in the best interests.

00:29:14: so understanding those two kinds of behavior this assertive here I am my face let go climb mountain or this good as gold gentle guy.

00:29:25: Those are the two behaviors that you think, hmm if the horse is falling into either of those categories I should probably take a closer look to make sure i'm not missing something.

00:29:38: how was their weight?

00:29:39: How has there energy level?

00:29:40: Has the vet warned me about body score because those are the horses?

00:29:50: Okay.

00:29:50: I love that you brought this into the conversation, which of course you did with the Eastern Asian concept in there because it's so much that has to do with your business and work.

00:30:05: The thing that I love about is that for me truly they're early signs because if we look at maybe sort of a Western approach pockets.

00:30:17: That's kind of a little bit too late in my opinion, it's like well you know something has already occurred for this to have developed whereas when That is really that, you know deeper awareness to say okay I recognize this.

00:30:36: So I recognize these traits in my horse and so This is something.

00:30:40: then i can keep Awareness of it And be You Know take preventative measures rather than Be trying To fix Something.

00:30:48: Yes Is already Happening.

00:30:51: Yeah Fixing is always.

00:30:53: I mean obviously if we Can fix something with a good Medication or A Good Protocol Wonderful that's Great.

00:30:59: but we always would like to not have anything to fix at all, because it's those small course corrections that can really blow you away.

00:31:11: It does take something on the part of caregiver because the caregiver then has to be a good observer.

00:31:20: They have to observe behavior, because I think there's a very typical thing that i hear with maybe new horse owners or people...I've always done it one way and all horses are the same!

00:31:31: And they're like well that's just how that horse is?

00:31:35: Well yeah that IS how they ARE but what they need.

00:31:44: And I don't blame anybody for not knowing all these patterns, you know we don't learn these patterns in school-these five element patterns are something that is really part of the western culture.

00:31:54: and yet when actionable, simple things that you can do.

00:32:07: That can change everything and maybe the biggest change that you need is not even doing something yourself although I'm huge advocate of that.

00:32:16: it might be like...you know i really do think i need my vet to come out because i think my horse is doing fine but..maybe he's not!

00:32:24: And maybe i need another set of eyes on this to see if I need help.

00:32:30: And that's powerful, knowing when to call in help.

00:32:34: you don't have to be the expert but you do have to observant enough and say does it need action?

00:32:45: It is like being a caregiver to any type of horse, not even just the more laminitic or laminated prone horses.

00:32:55: Any sort of anything going on.

00:32:58: being a caregiver for these animals can be extremely overwhelming.

00:33:02: there is so many moving parts and having resources of professionals.

00:33:11: it's really something that I know for myself with, you know whether it's biomechanical issue.

00:33:17: I was dealing with my mayor or now this more internal issue that i'm dealing with the foster pony is something like okay who?

00:33:29: I need help!

00:33:30: Where

00:33:30: are your stars

00:33:30: right?!

00:33:34: Yeah exactly yeah.

00:33:35: and

00:33:35: I think um It can absolutely be overwhelming for sure.

00:33:40: And Sometimes, you know the take this urban and try this technique.

00:33:46: And listen to this expert and try This training technique in.

00:33:50: it can be The swirl of not knowing where To start?

00:33:53: And this is Where first Of all You Know It's so important to trust yourself.

00:33:59: if you're getting overwhelmed get help but also Trust your observation Because I do really feel like A lot of times people are seeing things, but they're afraid.

00:34:10: They'll either be dismissed by the vet or the trainer Or the bar manager whatever and instead it's like no if you're spending You know seeing that horse five to seven times a week and hanging out with them, I'm watching their every little thing.

00:34:26: Um you're probably seen things.

00:34:29: other people aren't.

00:34:30: yeah And they have an eye for there specialty but YOU HAVE YOUR HEART INVOLVED!

00:34:37: This is your family member.

00:34:40: For most of us our horses are family members.

00:34:44: really trust yourself to know that if you feel like something's off and you don't know how to solve it, Don't Feel Like You Need To Solve It Yourself.

00:34:52: But Really Do Feel Like...You Need To Surround Yourself With People Like A Veterinarian Who Will Really Listen And Help You And Look For Solutions?

00:35:02: Because for most things..you may not be able to solve everything but there is almost always a way forward.

00:35:10: Yeah Absolutely Other than like avoiding spring grass or limiting grass turnout.

00:35:17: Is there anything else that can be done for preventative measures?

00:35:21: Yeah, yeah.

00:35:22: so the biggest thing I'm always going to Be talking about is acupressure.

00:35:28: Acupressur is really a simple no joke as stroking over a point gently holding contact.

00:35:37: You don't have to press, I know the word pressure is in there but you don't need to press hard.

00:35:41: that's not active principle it just making contact with these acupressure points and then stroking over to kind of finish.

00:35:50: so its a three step process at basic level.

00:35:54: for beginner as simple one two three stroke press stroke And this point which are on surface body have been shown to be connected through the nervous system and through the fluid mechanisms within the body, probably tied too.

00:36:13: There's a lot of talk now about the interstitium which is this intra-cellular fluid that kind of goes through it to come to balance.

00:36:29: And, It sounds very woo but the truth is...it has been seen in hundreds and hundreds of scientific studies.

00:36:36: we know that works!

00:36:37: We're still working out how?

00:36:39: But we do know unequivocally these techniques work because they've all used for thousands years And we know that like one point is really good for pain relief, and we use it.

00:36:55: We see in front of our eyes the horse lets out a big sigh and lowers their head and their eyes go half mass because they feel relief.

00:37:06: So I am just huge fan of starting with some simple acupressure.

00:37:12: It doesn't have to be anything complicated.

00:37:14: You don't need learn whole system master of it, that's not the point.

00:37:21: You let someone who does get obsessed with all this choose some good points for you so that you can go in and not only offer that assistance energetically to the horse but have a special bonding time because these points usually feel really good.

00:37:45: it's that you will also see like, oh for the past week every time I've done that point he is telling me that its uncomfortable.

00:37:56: So that actually gives your feedback to say things are active right now and need pay extra attention.

00:38:03: maybe i needed call in the vet if missing something.

00:38:06: do we need blood work whatever?

00:38:09: so these simple acupressure techniques literally can take five minutes.

00:38:15: We all have five minutes with our horses if we're honest, especially if it's about something like preventing laminitis.

00:38:22: And

00:38:22: so that is usually where I really encourage people to be a little daring dive into the deep end and just do a little bit of acupressure because it can make a difference.

00:38:35: One of the points And actually, there's two that I'm thinking about.

00:38:44: Both of them are points students have used literally just once and gone out to the barn the next day and looked at their horses and say they didn't recognize their horses in the pasture because the body posture was that different having use just one point.

00:39:07: now That's not gonna happen every time, obviously.

00:39:10: I've been at this a very long time to gather those stories from people but it happens regularly enough that we know that the total beginner can go and have those levels of results.

00:39:22: if they're consistent They really make difference.

00:39:27: So with that in mind so when you look at the acupressure perspective which not only can impact horses from that physical, you know biomechanic postural perspective but also a nervous system perspective.

00:39:45: How does like laminitis prevention?

00:39:49: how does the nervous system stress load all of those things?

00:39:59: food.

00:40:02: Yeah,

00:40:04: and it's huge.

00:40:05: we really can't say enough about stress levels for horses.

00:40:12: um We think of our horses as having a pretty nice life right?

00:40:17: All they have to do is go out and eat grass during the day And maybe take us around the arena couple times you know A couple times a week.

00:40:27: Horses don't really see it that way.

00:40:30: For so many horses, their lives are actually pretty high stress.

00:40:34: One because they're not living in a natural environment and They still have it pretty nice there.

00:40:40: most of them were no longer you know gonna Have the mountain lion take them down.

00:40:44: You know There's a certain level of safety And support that we absolutely offer as humans.

00:40:50: But living in boxes was really never the plan of nature to where how these horses are supposed to live.

00:40:57: And in fact, we do see that horses who have twenty four hour turnout do tend to do much better with these laminitic issues simply because they're moving more.

00:41:07: there's a lot of movement right now toward working with these track systems that really get these horses not just like going out finding some grass plunking their head down and don't move, but instead really going around these tracks and moving like they're supposed to on low quality forage where they have to walk in order to get their nutrition.

00:41:29: So you know there's all of these kinds of things so stress loads are partially from their environment.

00:41:39: They're living it an unnatural environment But I think that the stress levels can also be there from too much competition, um...from uncomfortable social situations.

00:41:57: Sometimes they have too much you know going on in the herd.

00:42:01: sometimes They don't have enough interaction with other horses.

00:42:05: There are so many ways that we see horses being under stress That it something that we kind of dismiss because it's a lifestyle.

00:42:16: We live, you know...we might be living in cities and like living a life that is not very natural for us either.

00:42:23: but..for the horses this can absolutely change that hormonal balance.

00:42:27: Because when A horse Is under stress And You start raising levels Of cortisol etc.

00:42:35: That Hormonal Balance goes out of WAC And that can kind of trip off the dominoes in terms of setting up other endocrine problems, such as we're talking about insulin resistance.

00:42:49: Insulin is a hormone and so this can be what tics out all over our system.

00:42:56: or if it's already there... It's been kind of brewing for a while.

00:43:04: If you have high stress situation, again it can kinda take in above that threshold to where you had real actual signs and eliminated crisis.

00:43:16: One thing I wanna add because actually the past few episodes or last years we had a lot of experts on that have been, you know showing the pros and cons of horses living in a note.

00:43:38: So many people leaning towards the fact that being kept inside and stalls And even small individual turnout Being so much less healthy for horse versus whether it's twenty four seven her note Turn out herd based living things like track systems all those different things.

00:43:58: And one thing that I want to add is, so my little herd lives out twenty four seven.

00:44:04: they can choose when to go into the barn.

00:44:06: When do you wanna be outside?

00:44:07: You know all of those different things and it has made a big difference on me horses.

00:44:12: My mare specifically since moving out of a boarding barn that um... They did going in a lot at night.

00:44:21: Yeah!

00:44:21: Now there are still.

00:44:27: I just want to make sure that so many people aren't thinking, oh if my horse lived outside then everything would be perfect and suddenly all of their stress would go away because there's so many times that i'll go out to my horses.

00:44:38: And maybe i'll see them being a little off and i'll think

00:44:40: you know

00:44:41: it actually was really windy last night.

00:44:43: yes

00:44:44: those sorts of things where there is still that stress that comes into play even For those listening, just keeping in mind that if your horse lives out twenty four seven it doesn't mean their environment causes them no stress.

00:45:00: One hundred percent, and I will also say that let's say you have an unbalanced herd.

00:45:07: You have something going on within the social environment of That herd that super stressful for those animals And they feel like they can't get away with it because everybody is out in The same space and you as the person maybe don't even see It Maybe you don't know it.

00:45:23: so in that situation that horse might love to be able come in and being a box, have that time for themselves.

00:45:31: So there are no simple works-for everybody answers.

00:45:35: I think anybody who is working with horses knows you really need each case one by one To see what the animals temperament.

00:45:48: Looking at what wind which is very interesting you bring that up because when does actually the climate?

00:45:54: That is associated with a wood element.

00:45:57: So yes, I'm gonna take it back to classical East Asian medicine Because With that Wind It will Actually really not bother some horses as all.

00:46:07: they'll be out in the wind and just no No effect whereas other horses might really be deeply impacted by excessive wind, especially if they have that wood type behavior.

00:46:22: And we have seen horses actually thinking about a horse who yes lived in completely open stall situation had the ability to come in and out every time she wanted, but she lived on top of this hill that had extreme wind all the time.

00:46:38: What made a difference for her was putting those plastic flaps that kind of hang infront of the lean-to so it could get away from the wind.

00:46:48: Oh interesting!

00:46:49: Her entire body posture changed in one week because I went said going crazy with this wind, I found it really hard to even be up on that hill.

00:47:04: They put in the strips and within a week she became a different

00:47:08: horse."

00:47:09: And that had nothing to do my acupressure!

00:47:12: That was the strip they'd put up Whereas the other horses didn't care at all, they were out there like yeah whatever it doesn't matter.

00:47:22: So this is where these five elements can be so helpful because you know oh I need to pay a little bit of extra attention To these qualities that are associated with The category that my animal has in kind of a predominant state and It allows you to stay ahead of those things.

00:47:42: Because your paying extra attention.

00:47:46: I'm obsessed with this five element thing.

00:47:49: You've become the biggest geek on it, Susan!

00:47:51: And i'm warning

00:47:52: you... Yeah, all my moments are kind of jaw-dropping.

00:47:56: I gotta

00:47:56: say yeah absolutely when we look at movement.

00:48:01: so you mentioned earlier about um living out can often be better for laminatic prone horses than being kept inside because they have a blood flow to circulation things like that.

00:48:13: what

00:48:15: Like if you're noticing a soreness in the horse, should they still be moving?

00:48:20: Should they still being doing things?

00:48:22: or is it like no nipping on the bud stall rest.

00:48:25: Well there's a lot of different opinions about that and I think this starts to get into place where really have.

00:48:34: look case by case.

00:48:36: There are definitely a lot barefoot folks who were saying Look what this horse needs maybe trim to get that foot in the right shape, and then they'll be moving on it.

00:48:48: And there's other people who say no we're creating more inflammation every time that horse is walking around Again...that really a case by case basis.

00:49:00: So its'a really tricky question because We don't want see the horse hurt yet at this same time The reason there is a frog on the bottom of the foot, so that can pump blood up through the body.

00:49:15: It's supposed to move!

00:49:16: Horses are supposed to go through those feet and standing in place isn't necessarily great option even if it has pain.

00:49:27: So again shameless plug for acupressure... There're pain relief points we use to reduce the soreness While that horse is getting the medical attention they need.

00:49:41: maybe it's you know Pharmaceutical, or maybe its you know dietary.

00:49:45: You know whatever The intervention is that's appropriate from a vet.

00:49:49: But we have techniques through the pain relief and through the points That actually start to put that body back in better balance.

00:49:59: They can help in between time while those interventions are taking place.

00:50:06: Could you share a few safe, sort of beginner friendly points?

00:50:10: Yeah.

00:50:11: So first of all I want to say that when we scheduled this interview I absolutely know that the best way to share with all of your listeners about Accupressure is to make sure they have visuals.

00:50:29: And since this a podcast, i will absolutely have this PDF available for the listener and it'll have points on talking.

00:50:38: so if you're going oh no!

00:50:43: It doesn't matter.

00:50:44: its gonna be in the pdf anything You have support for.

00:50:49: and if you're some reason that PDF isn't there I don't even know why.

00:50:53: just contact me And i will make sure, I put these points in your hand.

00:50:57: it is basically my mission life to put point the people's hands.

00:51:00: so i'm motivated on That.

00:51:03: but There are two points In particular For this springtime laminitis.

00:51:09: That um Are Just unbelievable?

00:51:13: The way they can help with pain relief They Can Help With hormonal balance, they can help with digestive issues.

00:51:21: and these points are two of these kind of mega-points.

00:51:26: They both cover like so many functions in the body that although we're working specifically maybe to help with foot soreness or an actual laminitis but you may actually see this point also improve behavior, they may improve immune function energy levels all sorts of other things.

00:51:46: just because that's the kind of points these are.

00:51:49: Some points are smaller train stations on a line and others like grand central station type points which do everything types.

00:52:00: I will say out four point i'm going to share in pdf two kickpoints.

00:52:09: Please use your safety positions when you do them and also know they are not to be used with a pregnant mare.

00:52:17: Save that for your veterinary acupuncturist, one of the mares is pregnant.

00:52:20: we don't do acupuncture until you uh acupressure until you really know what you're doing.

00:52:25: so it's not beginner-friendly.

00:52:27: but these two kick points...the reason their kickpoints big points.

00:52:33: And so the energy at those points, the blood flow at that point gets kind of in a traffic jam and it doesn't feel good!

00:52:42: So you may go in gently to see if your horse has some response like what am I doing?

00:52:49: You're not hurting your horse...you are releasing And it's kind of like ripping the bandage off, where it may originally be fairly reactive.

00:52:59: You even just want to put a hand over—like a palm over it instead of actually pressing into point at all for first time or two.

00:53:10: but after what you'll see within couple minutes usually is that horse will go deep relaxation as if Thank God I just had a break.

00:53:24: It's kind of like emptying up full bathtub of muck, it is going down the drain and things are clear

00:53:30: again.".

00:53:31: And he doesn't hold after one session.

00:53:36: you know these points that If the animal is vulnerable to all these conditions that we're talking about, are best done on a regular basis at least once a month.

00:53:47: And if you're dealing with laminitis, You might be doing them one day and I have guidelines for that.

00:53:53: then i'll put in pdf.

00:53:55: so We don't kind of take off the whole session talking About details.

00:53:59: but The spleen six which we call deep harmony Is inside of the gaskin?

00:54:05: This point unbelievable for everything laminitis.

00:54:11: It will balance the metabolism, raise energy levels support overall vitality even go for the immune system.

00:54:20: this point is bonkers good.

00:54:23: liver three which we call dynamic balance Is the point that it's particularly Good For those more assertive or even aggressive horses with Those high-energy in your face kind of energy, great sport horses but maybe with an attitude.

00:54:42: And you may find that liver three is the one place where they go and just let everything go!

00:54:52: They will actually start to ask for your point as if saying do it again because this It's really a drag that these two points, which can be quite reactive are on the inside of the hind leg.

00:55:11: So yes you absolutely need to use your safety but the safety moves really easy.

00:55:15: I have it in a very thirty second video.

00:55:19: its super simple and if you used this point responsibly You'll Be Fine.

00:55:24: The other two points i love Are On The Coronary Band so they're right above the hoof.

00:55:32: And what's fascinating about these two points, which are called Ting Points.

00:55:36: One is for the spleen one as per the liver.

00:55:39: These are channels energetic channels That they're on so spleen-one and liver-one.

00:55:46: these points Are amazing because when an animal has metabolic issues Very, very often you'll see that point is deep like a hole as if someone at the coronary band it was clay and somebody put in some kind of deep thumbprint.

00:56:09: proper circulation there.

00:56:11: and when you do these points regularly, You'll start to see the tissue actually changing at those points.

00:56:19: So instead of having that deep thumbprint or sometimes they even will be kind of puffy Or swollen They all kind of instead have this nice springy texture where there's a little suggestion Of a dip.

00:56:31: but That's it.

00:56:32: And then you know your really making progress.

00:56:35: But It can Be A way that you Actually assess how things are going.

00:56:41: So those are four points that many, many more.

00:56:44: And when you dive into this theory and become like a certified graduate from my program or something like that the pro level allows you to kind of really tailor each session to each animal and get many, Many More Points.

00:56:57: but don't

00:56:58: have go there just start Just Get Started!

00:57:02: These four points I'll put in that PDF.

00:57:05: they can be all you need all the difference in the world.

00:57:10: This is such a resource, thank you so much for doing that for

00:57:13: all of us!

00:57:14: Oh it's my total pleasure.

00:57:16: I'm...I am so excited to receive this PDF The Elemental Matrix System Susan.

00:57:22: Is That Something That Has Already Been Discussed?

00:57:24: Or Is That something else like what-what IS at a very intrigued?

00:57:31: Proprietary name, I give to how we look at the elements and although i have certain tweaks in ways that We do it.

00:57:40: That are slightly different than other practitioners.

00:57:42: It's all based on things that Have been done for three two five thousand years?

00:57:47: I didn't make up the five elements, for sure.

00:57:51: That belongs to the entire world.

00:57:54: but there are certain ways that we use the elements kind of unique to us and interesting takes that have things I've been using over thirty years really work.

00:58:08: they're just a special way.

00:58:10: integrated in think is I think in a lot of the materials that get shared online about The Five Elements, because i'm not the only one teaching this for sure.

00:58:24: Is that they tend to focus on like you have A Wood Horse or An Earth Horse and the truth it's a matrix.

00:58:34: there are five elements That Are All In There as an organism interacting just Like a spider web.

00:58:40: everything connected, and if you tug on one part of the spider web.

00:58:45: You feel it throughout the Web.

00:58:48: And so that is just my way of describing this interconnected interrelated system where by supporting One aspect of the health of an animal?

00:58:59: You'll see incredible benefits kind of ripple through out The entire system and It gets a lot more complicated than That.

00:59:08: but at its base balancing the body in ways that we've known about for thousands of years.

00:59:18: Yeah, so cool!

00:59:20: If listeners remember one thing from this conversation because we've covered a lot here there's been... So much um that has been discussed.

00:59:28: I know i'm going to have to go back and re-listen to this.

00:59:32: take notes but if listeners were to remember one

00:59:40: thing that I really want people to take away from this is don't wait To try acupressure until you have laminitis in your horse.

00:59:50: Don't wait.

00:59:51: start today and You know, I said earlier like the best time to start.

00:59:55: This Is a year ago but The next Best Time is Today because Whether it's, you know acupressure or these other lifestyle changes that are well known to Western approaches to equine health.

01:00:11: Getting on top of this is good for everyone.

01:00:14: no one wants to walk into the barn and see that their horse can't walk in there in that horrible lemonitis position stance.

01:00:23: they No One Wants Their Horse To Be In Pain.

01:00:26: And if You Start Working Now And by work, it's actually like play.

01:00:33: I mean the horses usually like this interaction maybe not?

01:00:37: you know?

01:00:37: The kick points might be a little spicy at first but then they relax.

01:00:41: and if You do them regularly?

01:00:42: They won't be as spicy like that all.

01:00:46: And so don't wait.

01:00:47: start now because you can Be making that change and Having a hand in keeping your horse the healthiest one on Your property.

01:01:00: Well, the pony's name is Midnight.

01:01:02: So midnight if you're listening to this podcast I'm coming for you.

01:01:05: don't kick me

01:01:10: Susan.

01:01:10: we have four rapid fire questions.

01:01:12: We ask all of our podcasts guests.

01:01:14: at the end It just a first thing that pops into your head.

01:01:17: The first one is do you have a motto or favorite saying?

01:01:21: My favorite is step Into the circle of care with horses because you belong there and it is a motto that I tell anybody, that will listen because i think a lot of times we don't trust ourselves.

01:01:36: We do not trust our horses or the relationship.

01:01:40: becuase were told they are not expert enough.

01:01:43: you belong in this circle And that doesn't mean you do veterinary techniques.

01:01:49: Absolutely not!

01:01:50: You should have an entire circle of team keeping the horse as happy and healthy everything, but you are also really important.

01:02:04: You're not just there to spend... To keep all of those experts in a fancy car.

01:02:10: that's not it!

01:02:11: You are there so that you're part of the team.

01:02:14: So step into that circle and know that you belong There.

01:02:18: an acupressure is one way But there's a million ways That you can advocate for your horse And Just Know you Can Trust Yourself & Trust Your Horse.

01:02:29: Oh my gosh, I'm so glad you said that.

01:02:31: That was... it's such an important thing for horse owners any sort of a caregiver to hear?

01:02:41: i wish that my younger self could hear that when I was dealing with so many pelvic issues with my mare my voice mattered.

01:02:52: and like you said earlier in this episode is that we know our horses so

01:02:57: well.

01:02:58: We do!

01:02:58: And when I say,

01:03:00: oh well i'm kind

01:03:01: of noticing it's important to know your intuition Your observation your relationship with your horse all of that is just as important As somebody's credentials.

01:03:20: Yes, so thank you.

01:03:22: It will help you choose the right team members.

01:03:25: Yeah Because sometimes you don't have choices.

01:03:28: Sometimes you're living more remote and there's only one vet and that vet doesn't Believe in you or whatever.

01:03:36: That's when you know Dr.. Google can can help fill in some gaps but for most of us we can choose the people who believe in us, who listen to us.

01:03:47: And then they get to use their incredible expertise that they are super passionate about and That's why they do what?

01:03:54: They Do whether it's training or nutrition Or you know whatever It is.

01:03:59: they Can bring that and support those horses and yet We should be selecting People that want to work with Us because we Know our Horses

01:04:12: All right, sorry I didn't make that very rapid fire.

01:04:17: Second question who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

01:04:23: Well i've had some pretty incredible teachers and some pretty incredibly you know clients and students and oh my god!

01:04:31: The animals that I work with all inspire me.

01:04:34: but When I'm asked that question, go back to Dr.

01:04:39: Peggy Fleming who is a veterinarian in Florida Who was one of my very early teachers and although i had been exposed To the five elements before her in shiatsu school it hadn't been framed In terms That I could fully identify with.

01:04:57: but she broke It down And said here it Is this five element model for horses, an absolute game changer.

01:05:07: And she just kind of started everything for me and I will always be so grateful for her incredible dedication and her incredible knowledge.

01:05:18: um...and she's still working.

01:05:20: you know like-like me thirty years old!

01:05:22: You know?

01:05:22: She is still doing amazing things down in Florida.

01:05:26: So i'm still continually grateful for how she kicked it all off from me.

01:05:33: If you could give a question in one piece of advice, what would it be?

01:05:37: And it doesn't have to be laminate specific.

01:05:40: Right right well It's interesting because I think the other thing that kind of similar To this step into The circle of care and its kinda ties back That is your enough.

01:05:59: people with horses kind of feel like they don't know enough or that have no skill, whatever.

01:06:05: And one big topic we teach around the earth element which is part this whole metabolic thing and why it's relevant...is you are enough!

01:06:17: You do need to observe changes in your horse.

01:06:26: It's basically like, if you can pat your horse.

01:06:29: You can do acupressure.

01:06:30: it's that simple.

01:06:32: so...you are enough and you CAN get started!

01:06:35: It is not above YOU!

01:06:38: Please complete this sentence.

01:06:40: for me horses

01:06:42: ARE magical aren't they?

01:06:46: They're just

01:06:46: MAGICAL!!

01:06:48: And..it's just as simple as

01:06:50: THAT!!!

01:06:51: They bring out the best in us and y'know They're situations where they bring out the worst in us too.

01:06:57: We have a complicated relationship with them, but now our best moments...they bring out The Best of Us!

01:07:03: They are magical and they bring that part of magic we have within ourselves as well.

01:07:10: All right Susan I want you to promote yourself here.

01:07:12: Where can people connect?

01:07:14: Find more about your work all things.

01:07:18: So first of That when you go and get that PDF, which will apparently be down in the show notes.

01:07:26: Just know that you will have connected into my system.

01:07:28: You can always unsubscribe.

01:07:30: no problems with that.

01:07:32: I'm much more important for you to just have them The information.

01:07:36: But if you want to stay connected?

01:07:38: That's a good way to do it.

01:07:39: but we are also on YouTube, we're on Facebook and we are certainly also um on our website at elementalacupressure.com spelled with one C Most people want to put two Cs in acupressure, but there is only one.

01:07:55: But we have all sorts of both starter courses as well as a certification program that takes people from the very beginning all the way up to a super advanced level.

01:08:05: so We would love to show you more because

01:08:11: Awesome.

01:08:12: So if you're listening to this right now and you want to learn more, just scroll down through the show notes.

01:08:16: You are going find that PDF link And then also there will be a link To the full website as well.

01:08:21: so you can check out everything Susan has offer.

01:08:24: I'm assuming Find your links to social media Through your web site Aswell.

01:08:32: Do all of things acupressure related.

01:08:35: Thank you so much, Susan for being here.

01:08:39: Like I said i am so excited about this conversation!

01:08:42: I've taken so much from it...I would love to get you on again.

01:08:45: no pressure the fact that we're recording right now?

01:08:48: You don't have to answer but I would love continue with his conversation because

01:08:55: Well, I am always up for talking about this topic because whether it is a specific condition like laminitis or just the general topic of The Five Elements there's nothing that i get more excited about.

01:09:07: so Just know.

01:09:08: I'm always down for

01:09:09: awesome.

01:09:10: Thank you thank You!

01:09:19: If you enjoyed this episode, it would mean the world to us if could leave a rating and review as well share on social media.

01:09:27: You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA And check out our free seven day trial on wehorse dot com where access over one hundred seventy five courses with top trainers from around the world in variety of topics and disciplines.

01:09:43: Until next time.

01:09:44: be kind yourself your horses.