#108 Indigenous Horsemanship with Ellie Pukehika

00:00:02: In this episode we're talking with Ellie Pucajica, a horse trainer and founder of the new Atlas Massager.

00:00:09: And I just sort-of believe that were all indigenous to somewhere... ...and what i think is beautiful was across different Indigenous cultures around the world.

00:00:20: We see these common threads in these common stories.

00:00:27: each person, like if they have that little spark and that seed planted to go on their own journey looking back into where they come from uh...to be able to guide them.

00:00:43: And maybe some of the practices from their cultures and then those universal laws as well.

00:00:52: Welcome to the Equestrian Connection podcast from WeHorse.

00:00:56: My name is Danielle Kroll and I'm your host.

00:00:58: Eli Pucajica is an accomplished horse trainer based in Rotorua, New Zealand.

00:01:04: She brings together her knowledge of the English disciplines of show jumping as well as horsemanship to merge the art of working with a horse and understanding this psychology, how they think

00:01:15: and learn.

00:01:16: Ellie has been a clinician at The Twenty-Eighteen EquaDays as well as the twenty-twenty and twenty-two EquaFest.

00:01:24: These days, Ellie focuses on teaching women How To Start Their Own Horses With Partnership Instead Of Force.

00:01:30: And she's also the creator of Atlas Massager A pole TMJ and hyoid massager for horses using vibrational massage therapy.

00:01:39: She's also the host of Rangwa, a podcast on indigenous horsemanship.

00:01:45: We'll be talking about all the things she is up to and how she got here including launch of The New Atlas Massager.

00:01:51: so let's dive in!

00:01:53: Ellie, welcome to the Wee Horse podcast.

00:01:55: I'm so excited that chat with you today and there's a little bit of history we have now.

00:02:02: it is not just like brand new guest but also as my new friend.

00:02:10: Kia ora Danielle!

00:02:11: Thank you for having me on today and yes i am grateful Hit it off!

00:02:20: Yeah, I could have gone sideways.

00:02:25: So

00:02:25: our first one we obviously took on to go back to the very beginning and i'd love to know just your history with horses.

00:02:33: so if you can give us some insight into your history how you got started?

00:02:37: And then also how you get.

00:02:39: where are today?

00:02:42: yeah sure thing wow...so I think traveling right there I grew up in a family where we didn't have horses right on our doorstep, but had horses and our whānau.

00:03:01: And mum and dad said that right from a baby, I was just horse mad.

00:03:07: I would try to sit on the dogs and hold their ears as rains.

00:03:14: So it was no wonder.

00:03:16: every holidays when we went over to my Dad's family they had a Clydesdale cross and he was The Family Horse.

00:03:27: so here in Aotearoa New Zealand In our culture it's quite common to have horses as hunting horses, so pig hunting or deer hunting.

00:03:38: And because that was a means of going out and getting food back for the family.

00:03:44: And so these horses were just real family horses.

00:03:49: They were a part of the family, like really in the backyard and all the kids could ride them.

00:03:56: it was pretty common to have two three four kids on a big horse's back!

00:04:03: So that was my introduction to horses right from little-little as I grew.

00:04:09: obviously at the beginning it was doubling with my dad or somebody else my grandad leading me, and over the years I can remember like some of my best memories are on this big cloud-style bin.

00:04:22: And i would go up and down The Dirt Road...and then as I kind of grew and got better..I sort of graduated to being able to go further....And Then I was able To Go Down Into.

00:04:34: There Was This Big Watermelon Field Out Behind The Farm!

00:04:39: cantering him through that and it was like just a hessian sack, like a potato sack for a saddle.

00:04:46: And um...and sometimes I would have like a bailing twine bridle in rains.

00:04:53: you know the bailing twin from Hey Bails?

00:04:56: Yeah!

00:04:56: So It Was Just The Best.

00:05:01: my love for horses didn't stop and by the time I was six, I'd managed to talk mum-and dad into riding lessons.

00:05:10: And then that sort of graduated to Pony Club!

00:05:15: By the time...I think I was ten or eleven?

00:05:19: ...I got my first pony and i'm really happy that Mum & Dad went about it in That way of kind me showing My Love and Commitment for it before they just sort of handed everything to me because I think that set me up.

00:05:34: For one, to have gratitude for being able to ride but also that i had put in the work.

00:05:45: yeah so... That was neat.

00:05:47: and then off course went down.

00:05:51: Competition and show jumping was my thing back then.

00:05:55: I was a bit of a daredevil, And i loved that.

00:05:59: we backed on to some big farms.

00:06:04: My goal in life was to see how many gates I could jump and how many fences i could jump, And see how far I can get over these neighbouring farms.

00:06:14: My poor sister she did not have the same desires In life... ...and quite often when her and I were out together She was like riding behind holding on for dear life Not wanting to jump those fences but having no choice.

00:06:30: Oh, yeah.

00:06:36: And just a beautiful life as a child growing up with horses which I think is fairly common one for kids here in Aotearoa where especially in small towns we packed our lunch packs and got on our horses and rode all day in the school holidays.

00:07:01: And then

00:07:02: I think in

00:07:03: my teens, I started to notice that i had like a an affinity with horses.

00:07:13: That were young or maybe they have some troubles and really enjoyed the process of working with them building trust.

00:07:30: early twenties I started to look at horse training as a career.

00:07:37: um yeah so that was a really neat journey in itself and i can tell the story of how that came about.

00:07:47: Yeah absolutely, please!

00:07:52: So I had actually taken a little break from horses come off my show jumping course, we had flipped through a jump and I broke my neck.

00:08:05: And i thought that was the end of After about a year of it crying every time my then two and half-year old would watch racing stripes, I was like this is ridiculous.

00:08:23: I'm crying over Zebra!

00:08:27: And so i set about finding uh...a new horse to come into my life.

00:08:34: That was when I found this young warmblood mare.

00:08:42: She was skinny, like her hips were sticking out.

00:08:45: Her ribs are sticking out and I could tell she is a really sweet girl but had that old way of breaking the horse in And it's an old farmer who bred her siblings And I think i felt sorry for her more than anything and so she definitely came home.

00:09:13: So with her, I did as much as I could with the knowledge and skills that I had of a young person who was pretty much just winging it... ...and also brought up through the pony club system in a real traditional way of working with horses.

00:09:32: And one day, I had got her to the point she was really anxious about being touched around her face and her ears.

00:09:43: Her neck.

00:09:44: you couldn't get a bride along here... ...and I believe that she'd been ear twitched too.

00:09:50: You know?

00:09:50: Have control!

00:09:53: So there's lot of fear there.. ..and i definitely made progress but it always felt like two steps forward and four steps back.

00:10:03: And this one day I was working with her, and i had sort of got the bridal on...and I thought things were going really good!

00:10:11: Then she just panned it through her head in a bridal went throwing, went flying....I was so

00:10:22: frustrated!!

00:10:23: It was like that breaking

00:10:24: point!!!

00:10:25: in that moment I just felt awful and i looked at her, and I swear I could see tears in her eyes.

00:10:38: And so dramatic.

00:10:42: but I dropped to my knees and I was like sobbing...and I said to her..I'm so sorry!

00:10:48: ...And I put out a prayer for something to come along because I so wanted be able help her and i knew that was at my limit there.

00:11:01: And just want make it feel better about being in a relationship, So think is one of those moments where my prayers were answered Because only couple weeks later then had seen post pop up on social media and it was with Dr Andrew McClain, he came to Aotearoa for our first ever equine festival.

00:11:34: He looked at a guinea pig type of horse that he could demonstrate working especially on problems issues.

00:11:44: so I thought well... That's us.

00:11:47: We're definitely having some of those and so I put my hand up, we were accepted.

00:11:55: And that was the moment when everything just started to snowball.

00:12:01: It was the first time i had learned about how horses think and learn and i guess this psychology behind it not not just being brave and being on there, relying on I think some natural skills in affinity with horses.

00:12:22: So yeah that was the beginning of seeing that And then really falling in love With The process & work Of Being able to Work with Horses & help them.

00:12:40: Yeah of course like one thing leads to the next and all these people start popping up in my life, different mentors and different horses.

00:12:50: And I think a few months later i then went to Australia learning and watching some really great horsemen over there.

00:13:05: And I came home, at that time i was actually halfway through a business in marketing degree!

00:13:13: I've always... twelve year old me has wanted to work with horses And I think i can do that too.

00:13:22: So, uh...I dropped out of my degree and went all in on working with horses.

00:13:29: Hmm.

00:13:30: Oh!

00:13:31: I love this all so much.

00:13:33: Also loved like the vulnerability of you sharing that breakdown moment for The Breakthrough Moment.

00:13:40: um because a lot of times we don't necessarily talk about that part of things and it's so needed.

00:13:51: And I love, loved everything you shared from the beautiful childhood to how have gotten into horse training now?

00:14:03: Correct me if i'm wrong but you now specialize in young horses is correct?

00:14:08: Yeah!

00:14:09: That definitely sort was a path down.

00:14:14: Yeah, absolutely.

00:14:15: And now the other thing too is I remember talking to you previously and of course You could be like no that's not whatever but... ...you were saying about how The way that you experienced horses when you're young again going back to that potato bag The sack on their back and the baler twine bridle and the simplicity of starting the horse from a really mammal to mammal connection.

00:14:50: And how you're weaving that into the way that your starting horses now, does ring true or is still true for you?

00:14:57: Yeah it definitely feels like one.

00:15:00: those full circle moments not realizing back then just the gift was too have had at beginning Like you say, mammal to mammal and really figuring out.

00:15:17: I think tapping into the as i've been working with horses...I think we have the mind in the body And then later on especially through my journey now We have that element of spirit.

00:15:34: or here in Tiamari, we call it Wairua and I think that was the side that i had really developed when I was a child because I wasn't taught the mental side of things.

00:15:48: I wasn' t taught the physical side of thing .I was just on me connecting.

00:15:53: And uh... It's been alot of conversations that ive been having lately In our indigenous horsemanship talks is this feeling of like the avatar moment, of plugging in.

00:16:06: And for our people I think that's something we have such a connection to.

00:16:12: So now it and my work are really focusing on That piece being wider lead spirit as i'm working with horses.

00:16:26: It's such beautiful journey?

00:16:29: Yes, absolutely.

00:16:30: Can you we talk a little bit about that?

00:16:32: About Indigenous horsemanship and

00:16:35: like what-what

00:16:36: that means or more specifically What That Means to You?

00:16:39: Yeah definitely.

00:16:41: Well I think this is the thing that i've just started exploring over The last few years as I have gone on my own journey of reconnecting or connecting To My culture.

00:16:54: because Of course through decolonisation we were really disconnected and not brought up in that world at all.

00:17:04: So as I've been on that journey for myself, uh i couldn't help but bring that into my experience with horses and starting to look at well what would have it looked like?

00:17:19: or what could of it looked colonization, how might have our ancestors trained and worked with them?

00:17:31: Because oftentimes...and I guess being a horse trainer in just being in the horse world we've all seen some not very nice ways of working with horses.

00:17:44: And so i started to think is there way that real, like rough and dominance in control way of working with horses.

00:17:57: Is that a symptom of colonization?

00:18:00: is there a...is That working through a trauma lens?

00:18:07: And for me I don't think that it's an indigenous way Of working with the animals-with any animals!

00:18:16: So yes thats led on this journey of understanding different parts of our culture to bring through and then inform the way that I work in show up with horses.

00:18:31: And yeah, for me what was your exact question?

00:18:39: Before we go off on a tangent!

00:18:40: Totally

00:18:41: just simple one... Just What does an indigenous horsemanship mean to you?

00:18:46: I think that for me, it means looking at the whole connection to everything.

00:18:58: One thing i've really learnt through my journey is nothing is separate.

00:19:03: there's this interconnectedness and symbionic relationship between human, horse or land.

00:19:16: We talk a lot about whakapapa, about ancestry and not just back three four generations.

00:19:24: we talked about Ancestry that goes right back to the beginning of time And thats told through names & stories.

00:19:33: For me what I've found is when i have these things in mind especially our earth and animals, trees in the water.

00:19:46: They're our tukana so they are our elders.

00:19:50: And when we think of them as our elders then it kind has that element of lifting up and respecting your thinking about pasts present and future.

00:20:08: because if we don't hold all of that in mind then I think thats when We stop caring about the way.

00:20:16: We show up today and the present Because, That's All That Is In Front Of Us And i Think Thats Where We Run Into Issues With You Know Things That Have Been Done In The World Today.

00:20:31: So, yeah really holding that in mind.

00:20:34: That interconnectedness and how can we be better guardians of our horses?

00:20:40: And the land they are on?

00:20:42: because when those things a well then We all well and the horses as well.

00:20:48: Yeah absolutely I hear When i listen to you speak about that The word comes to my into me goes beyond respect.

00:20:55: it goes to reverence just like deep reverence life, essentially.

00:21:04: You know whether it is human or animal or nature you know which we all are.

00:21:12: but its such a beautiful way of looking at things and also just the necessary ways to look.

00:21:19: like you said perhaps if more people had that outlook gotten ourselves to where we are today, in some cases.

00:21:34: And that's not to say all is lost because of course begin to adopt the outlook for things

00:21:41: around us.

00:21:42: Yes definitely as I dive into this concept and idea of indigenous horsemanship there so many answers within it to solve a lot issues that we are having.

00:21:58: and how can we return to those ways of being?

00:22:03: Yeah, which I think it looks the same in many cultures and places.

00:22:09: And...and i just sort of believe like we're all indigenous to somewhere!

00:22:16: What I think is beautiful was across different Indigenous cultures around the world We see these common threads Maybe for each person, like if they have that little spark and that seed planted to go on their own journey looking back into where they come from.

00:22:43: To be able to guide them And maybe some of the practices From their cultures then those universal laws as well.

00:22:54: Yeah, it's just such a beautiful journey.

00:22:59: Absolutely!

00:23:00: It's funny.

00:23:01: my husband and I shortly after the holidays this winter we each got a subscription to its called like Ancestry...I think well over here.

00:23:10: it's ancestry.ca in Canada but i think it's kind of a universal website.

00:23:20: great, great grandparents came over from Norway.

00:23:24: They took a boat from Norway to New York and then from New York to Ontario—and that's why we're here in Canada!

00:23:33: And it was really interesting because my husband began studying the Norwegian language He loves to cook and he started incorporating some Norwegian meals into, you know.

00:23:48: Some of our sappers and stuff like that.

00:23:50: And it's just the simple little things

00:23:52: That you

00:23:52: do begin To connect a bit more.

00:23:59: What would my great-great grandparents have been eating When they were kids?

00:24:03: Things Like that.

00:24:04: It is really simple But also felt really fulfilling and like heartfelt.

00:24:14: So yeah, it's just a nice thing for everybody to do in some cases.

00:24:18: That so beautiful I love.

00:24:20: thank you for sharing that.

00:24:22: And It is so true isn't it?

00:24:25: Can be those simple little things doesn't have to this big journey or event can just as simple.

00:24:36: yeah, the language and...the food.

00:24:39: And that's so rich!

00:24:41: It can be really deep.

00:24:43: when you dive into those things You definitely go down some good rabbit holes.

00:24:48: Yeah absolutely I would love to discuss your podcast as well.

00:24:54: So you have a podcast that speaks specifically, um...to the Indigenous horsemanship from and please-please-please correct my pronunciation here.

00:25:07: More?

00:25:09: Good try!

00:25:12: That's all right it's Māori.

00:25:16: Okay thank Yeah,

00:25:17: they'd

00:25:19: be fun.

00:25:19: And so can we talk a little bit about that?

00:25:21: Like what do you discuss on your podcast?

00:25:24: and also what do listeners who maybe aren't within that Indigenous culture... What can they take from your podcasts as well?

00:25:36: Thank you!

00:25:38: I think.

00:25:39: firstly i guess what people would like to hear is if they are non-Madi is that it plants a seed in them to go on their own journey, and what that looks like.

00:25:55: It's different I think for each person even if they are Māori That can look different.

00:26:02: Um...I know just how powerful was for me when-when that seed was planted in me And..that was through.... I was listening to podcast with Rupert Isaacson from the horse boy and he was sharing of his journey uh, Of working with different indigenous tribes And some of the incredible healings that he had witnessed.

00:26:30: And something inside me Was just Sorry.

00:26:35: I just got distracted by some birds outside.

00:26:40: So me

00:26:43: They'd love

00:26:44: it.

00:26:47: Last spring, sorry this is such a side tangent but at the beginning of Spring we have this bird and it's a migratory bird.

00:26:59: It's one about native birds called the pupifarorua And This Bird Is A Tohu A Sign that spring is on its way and it's time to plant your kumara, the your sweet potatoes.

00:27:14: And you hear them because they have this really distinctive whistle!

00:27:20: I had only ever heard them...and at one time i was sitting in a meeting my desk late looks out over our yard.

00:27:32: we've got beautiful made of trees around and we look out to the lake, so it's this beautiful scene.

00:27:39: And then I could hear the pepifaroroa...and oh!

00:27:44: Then i looked at that tree right outside my front window.

00:27:48: I was trying hard to be focused in a meeting but it really distracted me because like..I just want....to say...oh sorry my connection has dropped down So I could go and see this bird.

00:28:04: You

00:28:05: have to be like...

00:28:09: It's like flitching.

00:28:15: And actually, we'll come back from the podcast but it reminds me of when I was living in Charlotte in North Carolina about ten or so years ago talked to this woman and she was a Grand Prairie dressage rider.

00:28:38: She had a barn full of grand prairie horses, And at the time I was working solely with lots of young horses and quote unquote problem horses...and i Was really craving for riding a horse that was more advanced.

00:28:57: And so I said to her, hey would it be okay if we do an exchange?

00:29:02: i'll work with some of your young horses and in exchange for being able to ride some of the advanced horses.

00:29:09: Not thinking that she was going to put me on one of her Grand Prix Horses the very next time I was out there... So that was a cool journey!

00:29:17: One day when I was working with these young horses woman and she was in her late seventies or early eighties.

00:29:28: She had a couple of advanced dressage horses, grompery horses at the barn And she was having a lesson on one of them.

00:29:39: I remember the trainer instructing her to do...I think it was like ten peas on the diagonal And I can remember her riding on this diagonal, and then she just stops the horse midway down the track.

00:29:54: She's like...I'm listening to The Birds!

00:30:00: And I was like oh my god, i love this woman.

00:30:03: that's so outrageous.

00:30:06: You know

00:30:07: only old people who are at the point of saying they give no effs and I'm going to stop it.

00:30:17: then listen to the birds.

00:30:20: Oh my gosh am I reaching there?

00:30:25: Yes, absolutely.

00:30:29: I love

00:30:32: it!

00:30:33: So we have a field guide of Nova Scotia wildlife next to our windows with binoculars.

00:30:40: so anytime we see something we get our binocular and then flip through the book.

00:30:51: Maybe it's a whole slady thing.

00:30:53: It might be, it might be!

00:30:58: Okay back to the podcast.

00:31:03: Um okay this is one of those moments where I need redirecting in my face.

00:31:10: so let's

00:31:12: yeah... So we were talking about your podcast um and you know what somebody if they're you know, not within the yeah then what they can take away from The Conversation.

00:31:29: Thank You for guiding me there.

00:31:31: Yeah cool thank you.

00:31:33: um yeah I guess when i had heard this podcast with Rupert Isaacson talking about his experiences With these indigenous cultures and their healing modalities It sparked something inside me and although he wasn't talking about my culture it was almost like this little light came on, this remembering.

00:32:00: And I wanted to learn more about this because it was pretty phenomenal!

00:32:07: He talked about shape-shifting as well which is in some of our stories in Te Amati... ...and i thought to myself I really want to learn MORE.

00:32:18: But first I just had this real pull.

00:32:22: Before i learn about in other cultures healing modalities, I need to learn about my own.

00:32:28: and it was kind of like why?

00:32:29: but why don't I know?

00:32:31: About This?

00:32:32: Why Don't I Know About Our Healing?

00:32:35: And

00:32:36: so that again created the snowball of discovering why I didn't know and a big part of that one, i guess was colonization.

00:32:48: two Was the tohunga suppression act which is where a lot of our Healing in our culture.

00:32:57: Was made illegal as In many countries and cultures around The world.

00:33:03: yeah

00:33:04: so a lot Of these things died out or went underground And When I learned about that, it really broke my heart.

00:33:15: But that was sort of the moment that opened the door to be able to learn not just healing and our name Rongua means Healing And so it kind of felt fitting that should be the name.

00:33:37: Yeah, So That took me on a journey Of not only learning about that but also About my fucka-boppa My ancestry Where I came from Like you as well Learning The language Although i learned that Learning A Language Especially As an adult Is Not An Overnight Journey No But a beautiful one in that as well.

00:34:04: And also really tough, it brought up so much trauma That was stored In my body and you would know about this because You do somatic work.

00:34:18: Yeah

00:34:18: absolutely

00:34:19: yeah.

00:34:21: So...that Was really fascinating to As I unpacked things coming up out of me that I sort of knew.

00:34:32: this isn't even mine.

00:34:35: This is past generations.

00:34:38: they have had suffered through this loss of language and loss of culture.

00:34:44: um yeah so i guess Over that journey, it led to the podcast coming into life and I wanted to talk with different people whether they were horsepeople or non-horsepeople.

00:35:01: In Taomari our first season is based around Taomare – the Māori worldview And then in future seasons i am planning on talking with people from other Indigenous cultures so that we can have that spark and plant the seed for people.

00:35:23: And like I said before, everybody is indigenous to somewhere.

00:35:28: So it's that care being taken around not just extracting from another culture because when you get things cultural misappropriation and we don't do that.

00:35:42: And it's sort of like what you said before, having that reverence...and there are those universal things of.

00:35:49: I loved what Rupert Isaacson said to me in a podcast.

00:35:53: he said You know?

00:35:54: We can all go outside start to notice observe touch your tree breathe in those smells.

00:36:04: Those are the beginning practices indigenising the way that we are showing up and being.

00:36:14: Yeah, so talking to both horse people and non-horsepeople because I think sometimes are non-horse people because they don't come with those preconceived ideas of this is the way we've always done it.

00:36:30: So what can we learn from their practices that can help guide us in the way that we work with horses?

00:36:39: Absolutely!

00:36:40: Are you feeling inspired to put as much focus on your end of the partnership, As Your Horses?

00:36:46: Here at WeHorse.com we have over one hundred and fifty courses with top trainers from around the world covering everything From dressage To starting young horses To jumping And cavilletti training To groundwork and horsemanship!

00:36:59: And...we also Have courses designed to help You become more grounded & present With AND without your Horse.

00:37:07: This includes courses like the Mindful Equestrian and Matwork for Equestrians with yoga teacher Kathy Woods.

00:37:14: Check out wehorse.com for a free seven-day trial to get started, And as a member you could access everything in our We Horse Library to watch whenever And we also have an app, which means you can download a course or video to watch with a Wi-Fi.

00:37:30: Which is perfect for those days at the bar when you just want a quick dose of training inspiration before your ride Or in this case to ground and feel more mindful and present Before meeting your horse.

00:37:41: So what are you waiting?

00:37:43: Go to WeHorse.com.

00:37:45: Check out our free seven day trial To access Our WeHorst library.

00:37:48: See if it's good fit For You.

00:37:51: Start training With our amazing trainers today.

00:37:53: We can't wait to see you in there.

00:37:54: And now, back to the episode!

00:37:56: I love your work so much and one thing i want to say

00:37:59: about it

00:38:00: is um when you say about how like we're all indigenous to somewhere and connecting with our own cultures which absolutely completely agree that's so beautiful.

00:38:12: And I also want to speak from the lens of a white person and say that White culture was not colonized in the way others were.

00:38:27: For people such as yourself, bringing up history and cultural aspects have been so buried because you said colonization is not only healing those who are older generations that haven't been able to unearth that in themselves,

00:38:53: but it's also

00:38:54: allowing the younger generations to never have to hide it in their first place.

00:38:58: And I think It Is so incredibly beautiful.

00:39:01: The work you're doing...I want to commend You!

00:39:06: Yeah,

00:39:06: say that.

00:39:07: No thank you so much Danielle I really appreciate your words Your heartfelt words.

00:39:13: i can really feel That.

00:39:15: and yeah it's a brave work to speak up on these things but the more I talk about It The more I hear from others In the beginning.

00:39:35: Oh, this is just little old me and my journey of being disconnected.

00:39:42: And because on my mother's side she has European ancestry... ...and on my father's he has Māori and Irish ancestry.

00:39:57: So you're kind-of like holding these two things and not quite feeling like you fit fully into either world.

00:40:07: And so I thought, I suppose that was probably my child brain of...I'm the only one who feels this way sort-of thing.

00:40:18: but as i started to share that journey I realised that I wasn't alone in that feeling.

00:40:24: So it has just been really neat to connect with others.

00:40:30: We'll be on this journey together.

00:40:32: Yeah, you mentioned that as you began to connect with your culture and your heritage?

00:40:39: You begin to weave it into the horsemanship but I'm wondering if horses in some way have also helped you connect.

00:41:00: your horses help weave that into you?

00:41:02: I definitely think so.

00:41:05: It was in one example, i had always had this feeling of...I don't know how I know this when it's Friday and as I learned about my ancestors ...one particular.

00:41:24: his name is Tiki Parker who has great grandfather.

00:41:31: Well, he survived the eighteen eighty six tarawira eruption here in Aotearoa and He did that at just thirteen years old riding his horse away from the eruption.

00:41:49: And When I learned about that story it was kind of one of those moments like okay That's how I know things because my ancestors have been doing this.

00:42:05: It is like, My body and my wider world, my spirit remembers this!

00:42:12: And so when i learned about that... ...that was actually one of the first things that I started to do Was..I had this idea Of- I wonder if can ride & retrace his footsteps on my own horse.

00:42:31: And so that idea I didn't even know if i could access the land, and it took me on this three-year journey... My horses did!

00:42:44: So I guess thats like a piece of the horses leading me down that path.

00:42:51: It took about one year to bring all together.

00:42:57: It wasn't, it was sort of like so many elements of reconnecting to the whenua.

00:43:03: The land getting permission to be able to ride on it led me connecting with whanonga family members that you know we're connected through our iwi and tribe And being able to seek permission To just connect and hear other stories as well.

00:43:27: So as we connected then they would share stories about horses and their family, As well.

00:43:35: And what that had looked like in.

00:43:38: so yeah a year later We set out on this ride on our horses starting at the base of the monger The mountain where the crater had gone down?

00:43:51: and cut across, it took us three days to get from the start point over near the coast where he had finished up.

00:44:09: And yeah that was just an incredible journey with the horses.

00:44:16: yes I would say that connection like with the horse led me deeper into Māori and reconnecting.

00:44:27: But then I guess also in another way, uh...I think horses offer us to me.

00:44:34: Horses are right there offering and i think this is why we love horses so much as people because it's like this remembering of what it is like to be in connection with nature.

00:44:49: as our ancestors all of Us no matter where We Are In The World As Our Ancestors were, you know like horses are connected to the moon and the stars And The wind and the sunny days.

00:45:10: Just everything.

00:45:11: they're so in-the present and flow with nature.

00:45:16: For me when I'm with the horses it feels body and my mind, in my nervous system.

00:45:25: And...my spirit is like...like I'm back in flow!

00:45:31: And i am back in connection with those things that are innate to us That provide us wellness.

00:45:40: Yeah, it's so interesting because I mean like horses teach us as individuals.

00:45:46: you know about being present in our bodies a boat You know even like set things like mindset and all of these things.

00:45:54: Like that really are sort of individual Things for each of us to Work on.

00:46:02: I'll say work onsens weird but In body.

00:46:07: And then there are also these beautiful herd animals that work in community with one another and have this incredible sense of communication, leadership partnership overall like a community.

00:46:25: Also you had mentioned they're so much driven by nature.

00:46:29: the way it is part In full spectrum of that, it's almost like horses teach us about belonging.

00:46:38: This

00:46:39: full

00:46:40: sense of belonging with ourselves and one another in nature is just so beautiful!

00:46:48: Whether you realise or not your work very much embodies this as well.

00:46:54: Yes the belonging and connection to all.

00:47:01: Absolutely.

00:47:02: I

00:47:03: really

00:47:03: agree.

00:47:04: Yeah, is there anything you've had to unlearn as you've gone through this journey?

00:47:08: Because i'm just thinking two of our listeners that may be thinking like There's something here tickling my brain That I want to learn more and go a little deeper on My culture or heritage Or begin learning about others.

00:47:27: Is there anything in particular that you've had to unlearn, that might help someone going through their journey?

00:47:34: I think for me a big thing that i had to learn was... I guess caring about what other people thought of my own individual journey.

00:47:51: Especially the horse world where I had developed a career that was very much in like the western, not Western as a discipline but the western world of horses.

00:48:07: And uh...I think this path can easily look weird or um you know having it being a little bit alienated because you do start to show up differently and do things different.

00:48:30: I can remember at one point having seen coming across some people online mocking me about the way that i was being with horses, they said something like next she'll be out there singing singing to horses.

00:48:51: Can

00:48:54: you be like, yeah I am!

00:48:57: Already doing it and guess what?

00:48:58: They love it but i think just arriving at that place where letting go of focusing on your own journey.

00:49:13: That was a big unlearning for me and just trusting in that, you know when you can let go of those things there's other people that are standing there with open arms ready to welcome... Welcome you in!

00:49:31: And to support you and be standing next.

00:49:40: Okay, so changing gears a little bit.

00:49:43: I know that you have been working incredibly hard on your new product called the Atlas Massager.

00:49:51: I would love for our audience to learn more about it.

00:49:57: first of all if they're not following you in The Journey of getting this to market they need to be, so we're going of course put your socials in the show notes.

00:50:08: But can you tell us what is The Atlas Massager?

00:50:11: What's the story behind it?

00:50:13: all of those things?

00:50:14: Yeah thank you Danielle!

00:50:16: So The Atlas massager at the fucker papa there...the story of this product.

00:50:24: and my little horse chrome.

00:50:26: he I think in his early years had been taught to tie up.

00:50:33: a really common but old school way of teaching horses how to tie-up was tying them up with big posts and letting them fight it out.

00:50:42: And we know now, of course the damage that does felt.

00:50:57: he just had this tension and I was always having to work at releasing it through you know little exercises while i was riding, through massage.

00:51:08: And It was kind of a funny set of events because At the time when it was sort of...I was competing him We were getting The Body Worker out a lot!

00:51:24: and she said to me, it would be really great if you could be massaging it daily.

00:51:30: And with a newborn I was like well that's a really lovely idea!

00:51:35: I'd love to do this but most of the time i have a new born in one arm as im throwing gear over my walls and I thought, I really need a tool that i can pop on to help with this in between having our body worker out.

00:51:56: And I couldn't find anything on the market that specifically targeted that area.

00:52:02: so I set about making it...and um..so I made this just hand-made and I was using good old bailing twine again to tie it onto his halter.

00:52:18: And, It really made a big difference!

00:52:20: i started to notice him feeling a lot more soft and supple... ...and just more comfort overall.. ..and also very neat to watch while he's having these sessions with it because he would just let go into this dreamy stage you know when they get like their own soft mushy eyes and then he would do big yawns, and big releases.

00:52:44: And so I thought well... It seems like that is working!

00:52:49: And uh..I think i had done a post on my social media not thinking anything of it.

00:52:57: But then all of a sudden I had other people messaging me saying, my horse has those issues too.

00:53:03: can you make us one as well?

00:53:06: And so one thing led to the next and i was hand making these atlases.

00:53:14: we came up with the name Atlas because Of course The Atlas Junction Before I knew they were selling in New Zealand, Australia America Canada UK Mexico and it was so neat to just hear and see these videos and photos of other people's forces that were experiencing the same as my little horse was.

00:53:46: So that's been a really cool journey and I think especially, i woke up one morning to A message from a lady in Switzerland And she had used it with her collicking horse overnight.

00:54:02: She was just so blown away at how It had really helped settle him through.

00:54:11: Seeing people that have horses, who are highly competitive and sometimes with those horses they can also carry a lot of tension and anxiety.

00:54:23: And hearing things like I've never seen my horse so relaxed before!

00:54:29: So... Those were really just heartwarming.

00:54:36: a big why to help us grow and expand Atlas, so that's the stage where it currently is in the process of setting up manufacturing.

00:54:51: help more at scale because me and my garage, at night time does not really allow me to help horses at scale.

00:55:01: Yes yes oh my gosh.

00:55:03: but I'm so excited about this to see it go to market.

00:55:06: we've been kind of joking um before I'm waiting for this to blow up, um...to be huge and the next big thing.

00:55:16: So i am really excited about you with it!

00:55:19: We're gonna put a link in the show notes again.

00:55:21: if anybody listening is interested just scroll down.

00:55:24: You can find more about it.

00:55:28: All of The Things We have four rapid-fire questions that we ask every podcast guest and it's just kind of the first thing that pops into your head, Ellie.

00:55:37: So the first one is do you have a motto or favorite saying?

00:55:42: Well I think this one has kinda stolen from my dad but its tattooed on my wrist.

00:55:47: look through the jump.

00:55:48: This was my non horsey Dad when were at show jumping events.

00:55:56: he would say to us, look through the jump.

00:55:59: And my sister and I would be like rolling our eyes like dad.

00:56:04: you don't even know what your talking about!

00:56:08: Then as i grew up but realized actually that's some pretty good life advice there as well.

00:56:15: The obstacle is the way.

00:56:19: so it tattooed on my wrist where I can forever be reminded of my dad's saying.

00:56:27: Oh, i love that!

00:56:29: The next one is who has been the most influential person in your equestrian journey?

00:56:34: I think that's my granddad uh... That was sort of when it all began and ...I loved the way he set me up with horses really loved when I saw that question and i thought, I've had so many wonderful mentors in my life.

00:56:52: And teachers but the one that was kind of jumping out which I'd never talked about before is yes gotta be granted.

00:57:01: That's so nice!

00:57:02: But...I love that he came through for you to talk about here today.

00:57:08: So The next one is if you could give a questions?

00:57:11: One piece of advice.

00:57:12: what would it?

00:57:15: I think one piece of advice would be getting rid of your watch and getting into time with nature.

00:57:32: I love that also, could it a bad thing because the burn is like a time vortex where you're just going to be thirty minutes then four hours later?

00:57:43: True, true.

00:57:47: But

00:57:48: I love the sentiment behind it of like going by nature absolutely.

00:57:53: and then the last

00:57:54: one- It's a metaphorical getting rid of your watch if you have somewhere

00:57:59: to be.

00:58:01: Me my

00:58:01: foot back!

00:58:04: Oh i love it.

00:58:05: um The Last One please complete this sentence.

00:58:07: For me, horses are...

00:58:10: For me.

00:58:11: Horses like I said earlier just write my remembering to bring me back into line with how we're meant to be as humans and sentient beings.

00:58:24: I have loved our conversation so much today Ellie.

00:58:26: there is so much embodied and embedded wisdom within this.

00:58:34: I think our listeners are going to take a lot from it.

00:58:44: I

00:59:01: guess like look at things and be curious about the thing that i just do every day in my life.

00:59:10: How can people find me?

00:59:12: Im pretty much on all of social media platforms, youtube our website for ATLAS It'll be in the show notes and the podcast as well.

00:59:28: that's on all of their podcasting platforms.

00:59:33: Awesome, thank you!

00:59:37: Thank you for listening to this episode of The Equestrian Connection Podcast by WeHorse.

00:59:43: If you enjoyed this episode it would mean the world to us if could leave a rating or review.

00:59:50: You can find us on Instagram at WeHorse underscore USA and check out our free seven-day trial on wehorse.com, where you access over one hundred seventy five courses with top trainers from around the world in a variety of topics and disciplines.

01:00:07: until next time be kind to yourself your horses and others.